Aqua-cultured Mandarins

[Morbo]

About 3 weeks ago we bought an aqua-cultured Blue Mandarin. It was so small and cute; like 1/2" or less. Now I'm wondering if it was too small.

Up until about a day or two ago it was pretty active. We would watch it 'hunting' around and on the rock-scape. The last day or two though I pretty much stayed in one general area. It was obviously still alive, but not really active.

This morning we found it dead and partly eaten.

No idea what happened.

About 1-1/2 to 2 months before this purchase I bought a couple bottles of pods from a fellow R2R reefer to supplement what we had and boost the colonies. Was also hoping that purchasing an aqua-cultured specimen would mean that it might eat some of the 'standard' foods I feed.

Does anyone have any advice on keeping a fish that small safe and happy?

 

[susan ingram]

I am so sorry!!! No ideas.. but let's give this a bump. Anybody else in with the little one?

 

[I’ma tempermental coral]

How long was the tank set up for. My little girls from ORA was no larger than my pinky nail when we got her after QT. The reason I ask is because my little girl chomps upward of 30 pods a Minute sometimes. I waited years to have one. Until I had a tank and system I knew could sustain one. Even though she eats at all three feeding times in the day she still slams down pods all day long. I’ve said this before but it’s the best way I can really get the point across. Think of them as the humming birds of the reef, those little fins that keep them hovering never really stop unless they are all cocooned up for sleepy time. The need to constantly eat and will decimate a few jars of pods in days. I’m sooo sorry for your loss! Truly I am!!! A tip would be to get a refugium really cranking out pods and let it over populate the system before trying again. Again I’m sooo sorry!!!

 

[Letterkenny]

How long was the tank set up for. My little girls from ORA was no larger than my pinky nail when we got her after QT. The reason I ask is because my little girl chomps upward of 30 pods a Minute sometimes. I waited years to have one. Until I had a tank and system I knew could sustain one. Even though she eats at all three feeding times in the day she still slams down pods all day long. I’ve said this before but it’s the best way I can really get the point across. Think of them as the humming birds of the reef, those little fins that keep them hovering never really stop unless they are all cocooned up for sleepy time. The need to constantly eat and will decimate a few jars of pods in days. I’m sooo sorry for your loss! Truly I am!!! A tip would be to get a refugium really cranking out pods and let it over populate the system before trying again. Again I’m sooo sorry!!!

Now if my chaeto would stop melting...

 

[nereefpat]

What is the tank size? How long has it been set up? How much rock? Do you have a fuge?

 

[Morbo]

How long was the tank set up for. My little girls from ORA was no larger than my pinky nail when we got her after QT. The reason I ask is because my little girl chomps upward of 30 pods a Minute sometimes. I waited years to have one. Until I had a tank and system I knew could sustain one. Even though she eats at all three feeding times in the day she still slams down pods all day long. I’ve said this before but it’s the best way I can really get the point across. Think of them as the humming birds of the reef, those little fins that keep them hovering never really stop unless they are all cocooned up for sleepy time. The need to constantly eat and will decimate a few jars of pods in days. I’m sooo sorry for your loss! Truly I am!!! A tip would be to get a refugium really cranking out pods and let it over populate the system before trying again. Again I’m sooo sorry!!!

Thanks for the response. I know mandarins are "hard" but I figured we were far enough along to try.

Tank is just under 7 months old. 125G main display, 40G sump/refugium. We've got lots of rock in the DT, a bunch of rubble in the sump, along with chaeto, pom pom macro, and two home-made "pod hotels".

Like I mentioned we seeded pods multiple times in the months leading up to acquiring the little guy.

We'll just have to wait and let the system mature even more.

I need to go find our old mandarin from an earlier tank. We bought it from a fellow Boston Reefer's member who was breaking down her 1500+ gallons of interconnected systems. We were there to buy some coral and some Banggai Cardinals she bred. My daughter was looking at the tanks and said "Daddy! A mandarin!!!". The woman didn't even remember/recall having a mandarin in the tank. lol. We bought it and it stayed with us until almost two years later when it went to a new home (my company was sold, got laid off, had to sell everything). That mandarin was much bigger and super hardy.

Thanks again.

 

[flampton]

So how many pods would come off when you shook the hotels into the DT? If you were consistently getting a lot to drop off(hundreds+) there's a chance the mandarin died for another reason

 

[Morbo]

So how many pods would come off when you shook the hotels into the DT? If you were consistently getting a lot to drop off(hundreds+) there's a chance the mandarin died for another reason

I wasn't just shaking them into the DT. I originally had both "hotels" in the sump/refugium. The first supplement of pods we got (from AlgaeBarn) went into the sump with the hotels. The second batch, two 'large' bottles from an R2R member, went in about 2 months later; one into the DT and one into the sump.

When we got the mandarin I moved one of the "hotels" up into the DT (sump->bowl->DT); I saw pods in the bowl, not sure how many.

About a week later I swapped them around.

Other than waiting longer, I don't know what else I could have done differently. Well, I could have made a pod feeder and tried using that.

Edit to add: Once every day, every other day, I would squirt some of the fish food into the sump to make sure there was stuff to each down there. Filter sock and skimmer were probably catching 99% of the overflow from the DT.

 

[flampton]

Can dose phyto to better establish your colonies. Should go through the socks but you can dose the sump as well if need be. Oh and not sure your design but you should shake your hotels to get the pods out and available to the mandarin

 

[Drendo]

I purchased a Biota Mandarin from Algae Barn in March. It was less than 1/2 inch when I got it and I had to leave it in my QT until 2 weeks ago because to was so small that it would have been sucked into the return. He is doing great in my 180 DT now, but I really wish they would sell them at a responsible size so people don't have to keep them in QT for many many months.

 

[I’ma tempermental coral]

@Morbo im leaning towards the possibility there was something else effecting your little one. While 7 months is still a young tank with what would be relative to size a smaller population, the size should still manufacture a decent population for it to graze. Is it possible the other fish had her only staying in a single area in the tank? I’m not specifically asking about aggression here sometimes smaller fish tend to stick to their safe spot regardless of if they are physically being bullied. With a baby mandarin this could lead to problems if it cleaned its space out of pods and wouldn’t venture away in search of fresh hunting. Please don’t take anything I am saying as criticism I promise I only want to help figure out what happened and get you in the right track to keeping another one long term. I love all my slimy babies but my little spotted mandarin girl just makes me soooo happy to watch. I want everyone that loves them as much as I do to have every bit of information they can to be successful!

 

[Morbo]

@Morbo im leaning towards the possibility there was something else effecting your little one. While 7 months is still a young tank with what would be relative to size a smaller population, the size should still manufacture a decent population for it to graze. Is it possible the other fish had her only staying in a single area in the tank? I’m not specifically asking about aggression here sometimes smaller fish tend to stick to their safe spot regardless of if they are physically being bullied. With a baby mandarin this could lead to problems if it cleaned its space out of pods and wouldn’t venture away in search of fresh hunting. Please don’t take anything I am saying as criticism I promise I only want to help figure out what happened and get you in the right track to keeping another one long term. I love all my slimy babies but my little spotted mandarin girl just makes me soooo happy to watch. I want everyone that loves them as much as I do to have every bit of information they can to be successful!

Not taking any of your responses negatively. I appreciate the input/guidance.

We never saw anything like aggression or territorial protection by any of the other fist. For the first week the mandarin was mostly on the right-hand side of the tank. At first just on the sand and the edge of the rock-scape. As the week progress we saw it expanding upward and outward. That side of the tank is where our Yellow Watchman and Tiger pistol have their burrows; never saw either of them bother their newest tank mate.

After the first week (generally speaking) the mandarin was exploring more of the full width of the tank. Still not exploring every location, or height, but definitely moving about more as it got comfortable and hunted.

It was really only in one spot (like a 6" - 12" area) for the last day or two. Prior to those last couple days it was pretty active during the day. During the last days it was barely moving around; so I googled mandarin habits. Like everything on the net half the responses day nocturnal and the other half said day hunter. lol. That didn't help me.

 

[I’ma tempermental coral]

From what I’ve learned they are a diurnal fish. The only evening habits I’ve read about are the courtship behaviors happening at dusk. This may sound like a left field question but have you tested the tank for stay current?

 

[flampton]

Oh and pods need a refugium but it can be cryptic if you're using phyto

 

[Morbo]

From what I’ve learned they are a diurnal fish. The only evening habits I’ve read about are the courtship behaviors happening at dusk. This may sound like a left field question but have you tested the tank for stay current?

No, haven't tested for stray current. Will look into doing so on the off chance that it's an issue.

 

[I’ma tempermental coral]

No, haven't tested for stray current. Will look into doing so on the off chance that it's an issue.

I know how tiny they are when they come in aquacultured. Like I said mine was the size of if not smaller than my pinky nail and I’m little as it is. Just thinking it’s possible with the tiny size it may have been more susceptible to it. Just throwing ideas out you know?

 

[najer]

As mentioned, get yourself live phyto to feed the pods.