Aqua UV Sterilizer Question

I just came across this thread.....I have been in research mode for the last few days and have decided on the Aqua UV 25 watt for my 120 but not sure to go with the wiper or not-opinions?-I spoke to them and was told 350-400 gph is good for max effectiveness. I always thought the flow should be slower but I stand corrected. On other opinions out there regarding flow rate?
Not knowing anything about your system, 200-250 GPH is where you want to be. AquaUVs recommended numbers are much less stringent than their competitor Pentair (Emperor) amd also what research has shown.
Do not get the wiper. I could be wrong (not often) but when you use the wiper it could scratch the quartz glass tube if there were anything hard on them. On flow I went the slow flow way and worked fine for me on my dino outbreak.
Regarding wiper, I had one for 2 years with the wiper. When I didn't wipe for a year, the quartz glass was just as clean. To me, gimmicky add on plus the chances of leaks are higher.
 
Looks like i'm going with a 150W for my 255g....Gulp...another $925......Now I have to figure out how to ease this news to the wife! If this will help with Dinos and Ich Trophonts etc..... I'm in! I am wondering though how to plumb this so that I get suction from the bottom of my tank as FarmerTY states is the most effective method of sterilization......If I use an external pump...I guess I could mount it so there is not much more than 2ft suction lift and 2ft return head back into the tank since my tank is only 24" deep........
 
Looks like i'm going with a 150W for my 255g....Gulp...another $925......Now I have to figure out how to ease this news to the wife! If this will help with Dinos and Ich Trophonts etc..... I'm in! I am wondering though how to plumb this so that I get suction from the bottom of my tank as FarmerTY states is the most effective method of sterilization......If I use an external pump...I guess I could mount it so there is not much more than 2ft suction lift and 2ft return head back into the tank since my tank is only 24" deep........
I used a submersible pump hidden behind the rockwork and ran the tubing up along the corner seam and out of the tank by the overflow to hide it. The return plumbing ran down the other corner seam and went back behind the rockwork again with the UV mounted on the wall behind the tank.
 
Product ordered and I will shoot for 350-400 gph, having spoke to the people at Aqua UV once again. I will be using the new Innovative Marine Mighty Jet DC return pump that maxes out at 538 gph.


 
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Product ordered and I will shoot for 350-400 gph, having spoke to the people at Aqua UV once again. I will be using the new Innovative Marine Mighty Jet DC return pump that maxes out at 538 gph.


I would aim for a lower GPH. AquaUV is just defending their posted numbers for their product, which is 1/3rd the amount recommended by the University of Florida to irradiate marine protests such as ich and 1/2 of what their competition recommends. Its the lowest recommendation in the industry for killing ich... While there isn't an exact number... Personally, I'd rather go for a higher irradiation number to make sure I'm killing the ich theronts than a lower one.

Do keep in mind the 3x turnover per hour of total water volume is ideal for the system. Otherwise, you're not processing enough water per hour to be effective. Basically, you'll kill everything going through at the correct irradiance level but if you don't get enough turnover per hour, you're not killijg enough in your system to ever keep populations at bay.
 
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Agreed! I am going to try for around 350 gph. It was an interesting education, as I called some major manufacturers and distributors, whilst in research mode. I was advised to keep flow from a low of 130 to a high of 700 gph! A lot of oversimplification and anecdotal information out there.
 
Where did the 3x turnover per hour number come from? The min flow for uv exposure kill rates has plenty of research, but I never understood the 3x tank volume bit, seems it would depend greatly on the growth rate of the target microorganism which varies widely, but 3x always has seem high to me. I know American aquarium products has that 3x listed but with no evidence I can see of microorganism counts. I have a hard time thinking 1x vs 3x really is impactful, either the organism will grow so fast that the 1x vs 3x will not matter or the life cycle is slow enough that either one will catch it. (but I do think flow through the UV is critical)

That being said... sterilization rates are listed for single pass, I have often been curious what effects a closed system have on rates, that a single pass could leave the organism alive, but attenuated. That is weakened to the point of being unable to infect or reproduce. With the entire volume of water going back through the UV once per hour (lets say) there is a good change this organism is going to not recover in time before another pass and be further damaged.
 
Where did the 3x turnover per hour number come from? The min flow for uv exposure kill rates has plenty of research, but I never understood the 3x tank volume bit, seems it would depend greatly on the growth rate of the target microorganism which varies widely, but 3x always has seem high to me. I know American aquarium products has that 3x listed but with no evidence I can see of microorganism counts. I have a hard time thinking 1x vs 3x really is impactful, either the organism will grow so fast that the 1x vs 3x will not matter or the life cycle is slow enough that either one will catch it. (but I do think flow through the UV is critical)

That being said... sterilization rates are listed for single pass, I have often been curious what effects a closed system have on rates, that a single pass could leave the organism alive, but attenuated. That is weakened to the point of being unable to infect or reproduce. With the entire volume of water going back through the UV once per hour (lets say) there is a good change this organism is going to not recover in time before another pass and be further damaged.

To be honest, my research was so long ago into this topic, I couldn't even remember where I got the 3x turnover. It seems to be more a rule of thumb then a hard line requirement unlike the flow rate, which is more hard line. Either case, more turnover at the appropriate flow rate, the better of course.

I often wondered that too as the majority of the research is conducted/funded by the fish farming industry and they are only interested in single pass sterilization. With our finite volumes and recirculating setups, the scenario is much different. There is also a downside to our recirculating setups, not all the water is forced through the sterilizer from one tank to another clean tank... So the effects of sterilization can never be as complete as the single pass setup in fish farming as its 100% water exchange, forced through the single pass to clean tank. We just keep sterlizing water in the same "dirty" tank over and over.
 
I didnt read this but AquaUV uses 90,000uw/cm3 as there protozoa level of sterilize, while pentair uses 180,000 and some sources say 1,000,000. The information is extrapolated, meaning there is not a real answer. Just to keep in mind.
 
The answer is slightly deeper than that. We have to go over ideal kill rate for the sterilizer for marine protists as most are concerned with ich for sterilization purposes. For clarification, the 25 watt would work all day.

Perhaps I could point you to another thread I contributed as today is a busy day at work and I don't have enough time to explain it as clearly as I would hope to.

Here is an except I copied from it and also the link to the thread. I was responding to a reefer about his current setup. Please also keep in mind that in my own experiences, when I hooked up my UV to my manifold in my sump, I had marginal results. Its only when I hooked it up to pull water directly from the lower portions of the display, fed it into the sterilizer, and back into the display, did I have the best success. My theory is the free swimming trophonts tend to stay towards the lower portions of the water column and most don't get high enough to spill over the overflow and into the sump to be irradiated. So having your UV in the sump hooked up to your manifold is almost useless IMO. This was backed up with me being able to keep my powder blue tang in my sump ich free for months but the minute I moved it into the display above, it got ich immediately and succumbed to it. The UV in the sump was effective to keep him free of ich but when I moved him to the DT, it was ineffective. Hope the info helps.

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/uv-overkill-or-nay.245079/

"You have a 150-watt HO Emperor you plan to use on a 300-gallon total water volume tank. Emperor suggests for killing marine protists (ich), you would need an exposure of 180,000 µWsec/cm2 running at 840 GPH to do that.

According to research by the University of Florida:

https://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/fa164

"Use of ultraviolet (UV) sterilization to kill theronts has been suggested, based on research involving Ichthyophthirius multifiliis (freshwater "ich"). The recommended UV dose for Ichthyophthirius theronts is 100,000 µWsec/cm2 (Hoffman 1974). However, UV doses required for Cryptocaryon irritans are anecdotal or extrapolated, and range from 280,000 µWsec/cm2 (industry numbers) to 800,000 µWsec/cm2(Colorni and Burgess 1997)."

So the extrapolated saltwater ich exposure needed to kill it with UV is anywhere from 280,000 to 800,000 µWsec/cm2. I've run with 336,000 µWsec/cm2 because I pulled that from a chart I saw many years ago for an exposure level to kill marine ich.

So to adjust Emperor's GPH from the 840 GPH needed for 180,000 µWsec/cm2 exposure to almost double the exposure suggested at 336,000 µWsec/cm2:

336,000 µWsec/cm2 ÷ 180,000 µWsec/cm2 = 1.87
840 GPH ÷ 1.87 = ~450 GPH

Running your UV at 450 GPH will effectively kill marine ich protists going through your 150-watt UV unit. The problem is most recommend at least a 3x turnover per hour for UV to be effective. Basically, the 450 GPH will kill any ich that goes through your UV, but if you don't have it turn over the tank volume at least 3x/hour, you're not killing enough of them to make a true impact to the population. For 3x turnover of your 300-gallon system, you need at least 900 GPH. So effectively, believe it or not, your unit is actually half the size it needs to be for your system as you're only running 450 GPH through it.

Again, these aren't hard rules of thumb. The 3x turnover is not a hard rule, just a suggested rule. The 280,000 µWsec/cm2 - 800,000 µWsec/cm2 extrapolated marine ich exposure value is not a hard line either, especially since it's just extrapolated from a freshwater ich exposure dose.

I just wanted to do the calculation for you to let you know where you stand and to give you comparison to suggested industry rules-of-thumb. Your own application and your intended purpose will help you decide what you really need to do. Just trying to help out a fellow hobbyist."


Very good discussion. If I quickly summarize the higher the uw/cm2 the more effective it is at killing parasites. However I see the following from the AquaUV manual at the bottom of the chart. It says Marine Fish Tank (no reef or live rock) = 75k-90k columns. Consistent with the discussion here with the higher number. BUT. right above that line.. it says higher UV will destroy the planktonic food supply essentially saying it's not good for a mix reef tank. Bit conflicting?




1609947461833.png
 
Very good discussion. If I quickly summarize the higher the uw/cm2 the more effective it is at killing parasites. However I see the following from the AquaUV manual at the bottom of the chart. It says Marine Fish Tank (no reef or live rock) = 75k-90k columns. Consistent with the discussion here with the higher number. BUT. right above that line.. it says higher UV will destroy the planktonic food supply essentially saying it's not good for a mix reef tank. Bit conflicting?




1609947461833.png
My thought on this is we don’t naturally have that much planktonic populations in our tanks anyways. As much as we try to emulate natural reefs, this is one area we’ll never be able to replicate. So short answer, probably not much to kill there anyways.
 
Very good discussion. If I quickly summarize the higher the uw/cm2 the more effective it is at killing parasites. However I see the following from the AquaUV manual at the bottom of the chart. It says Marine Fish Tank (no reef or live rock) = 75k-90k columns. Consistent with the discussion here with the higher number. BUT. right above that line.. it says higher UV will destroy the planktonic food supply essentially saying it's not good for a mix reef tank. Bit conflicting?




1609947461833.png

Not conflicting. UV kills everything without discrimination. Who has live plankton in their reef tank anyway?
 
My thought on this is we don’t naturally have that much planktonic populations in our tanks anyways. As much as we try to emulate natural reefs, this is one area we’ll never be able to replicate. So short answer, probably not much to kill there anyways.

Fair enough. I saw it very binary. First few line says 30-45k is ideal for a reef tank. "Check! I have one of those." Then I see Marine Fish (no reef or live rock) to go 75-90k. "Umm.. I have reef and live rock.. so no check here. " Means I better turn up the flow, but how the hell am I going to get 2000+ gph off a manifold without some upgrades. I'm looking to zap bugs so thank you.. will now target that lower 200s.
 

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