Aquacultured Fish ?

[pjb9166]

So it's been 11 months with no real algae issues. I'm stating to get gha that my cleaning crew, blenny and urchin just can't keep up with. So I was thinking of something utilitarian like a tang.
Are the aquaculture tangs a good choice? Are they less susceptible to inch?
I'm asking because I have no experience with them. The only aquacultured fish I do are my clowns. We all know how they have lost their natural tendencies.

 

[MnFish1]

So it's been 11 months with no real algae issues. I'm stating to get gha that my cleaning crew, blenny and urchin just can't keep up with. So I was thinking of something utilitarian like a tang.
Are the aquaculture tangs a good choice? Are they less susceptible to inch?
I'm asking because I have no experience with them. The only aquacultured fish I do are my clowns. We all know how they have lost their natural tendencies.

@Humblefish @HotRocks @PaulB others are far more expert at this than I - but I would say they are 'more' susceptible to CI than natural sea- raised fish - who would likely have partial immunity.

 

[pjb9166]

@Humblefish @HotRocks @PaulB others are far more expert at this than I - but I would say they are 'more' susceptible to CI than natural sea- raised fish - who would likely have partial immunity.

My son and were going to check out Colchester Pets. I was under the influence that captive bred were less. Just want to make sure if I was incorrect in thinking that.

 

[HotRocks]

A captive bred fish (if acquired directly from the breeder) would have less of a chance of ever having been exposed to marine ich. If they only keep captive bred fish in the facility.

If you are buying a captive bred fish from a wholesaler or retailer that sells both than the exposure may not be much different than any other wild caught fish except for the fact the fish will have zero resistance to the parasites.

In the wild things like ich and velvet are not that big of a deal because the concentration is much lower. The fish aren't likely to get enough of an affliction that they can't deal with naturally. The issue is when we put them in a glass box and allow parasites to cycle and multiply the affliction can become heavy enough that the fish can't shake it on their own.

Paul and I don't keep fish the same way, but what I do works for me and what he does works for him.

I still QT and prophylactically treat any captive bred fish that joins my DT population.

 

[MnFish1]

A captive bred fish (if acquired directly from the breeder) would have less of a chance of ever having been exposed to marine ich. If they only keep captive bred fish in the facility.

If you are buying a captive bred fish from a wholesaler or retailer that sells both than the exposure may not be much different than any other wild caught fish except for the fact the fish will have zero resistance to the parasites.

In the wild things like ich and velvet are not that big of a deal because the concentration is much lower. The fish aren't likely to get enough of an affliction that they can't deal with naturally. The issue is when we put them in a glass box and allow parasites to cycle and multiply the affliction can become heavy enough that the fish can't shake it on their own.

Paul and I don't keep fish the same way, but what I do works for me and what he does works for him.

I still QT and prophylactically treat any captive bred fish that joins my DT population.

To clarify - I was suggesting that adding a purely captive bred fish into a tank that has other fish that are not QT'd properly are at higher risk - thanks for explaining this better than I @HotRocks

 

[HotRocks]

To clarify - I was suggesting that adding a purely captive bred fish into a tank that has other fish that are not QT'd properly are at higher risk - thanks for explaining this better than I @HotRocks

I would agree with you on that, if the breeder keeps a disease free system and you add a fish to your current population that was not QTd properly (ich management) then the fish would have less of a chance of successfuly acclimating to the environment than a same species wild caught version.

 

[pjb9166]

Thanks....

The fish I have are CB. I've had them since tiny tiny. I'm just worried because even though my clowns are standard. The family has grown fond of them. I don't want anything to happen to them.

 

[pjb9166]

So I was putting 1 and 1 together.
Algae Barn is selling them as a superior alternative to wild. One of their pros was that they had a stronger immune system than wild.
I was reading their site while waiting for replies.

 

[HotRocks]

Thanks....

The fish I have are CB. I've had them since tiny tiny. I'm just worried because even though my clowns are standard. The family has grown fond of them. I don't want anything to happen to them.

If you have a trusted source for an additional captive bred fish it may work out for you. Ordering a CB fish from an online retailer, ships from a wholesaler keeping fish in the same system as wild caught. Personally I would not put any fish no matter what in my tank without QT. There is a risk there, but may be less of one if you play your cards right.

 

[MnFish1]

Thanks....

The fish I have are CB. I've had them since tiny tiny. I'm just worried because even though my clowns are standard. The family has grown fond of them. I don't want anything to happen to them.

IS CB - captive bred - BTW - I was referring to totally tank raised fish - from a breeder with a 'sterile' system. As compared to those born in a normal tank that had not QT'd fish

 

[pjb9166]

I thought Colchester Pet only did Aquacultured fish. Could be wrong.

 

[MnFish1]

So I was putting 1 and 1 together.
Algae Barn is selling them as a superior alternative to wild. One of their pros was that they had a stronger immune system than wild.
I was reading their site while waiting for replies.

I checked - and I see that they say "The Captive Bred Fish we offer are sustainably bred, have strong immune systems, and are isolated from the diseases of the wild." - which is only saying 'we sell healthy fish' that have not been exposed to disease. Ie they have a good innate immune system- but a poor specific immune system. Meaning - if they got CI they would be better than a fish that was kept in poor conditions - but they would be more susceptible to CI if they were exposed. If they got velvet - they would be in big trouble. One of my questions to various people in the forums that desire an immune tank - is that in the future how will captive bred - non-exposed fish do in these types of systems. Hope this helps.

PS - there is no evidence (that I saw) that their fish have 'strong immune systems'. Every living thing (unless they have a disease) and is in good health has the strongest immune system possible - but that does not mean they aren't susceptible to disease...

PPS - Hopefully @AlgaeBarn can answer what this means(i.e. if they have studied the immune systems in their fish vs wild fish)

 

[pjb9166]

It does. Thank you.
So I'm still on the fence on letting my son get one for the tank. I'm learning no matter how clean you keep your system. Your still going to windup getting algae. With this system I've been so anal with husbandry practices. But we are at that point I feel we need a utilitarian fish.

 

[MnFish1]

It does. Thank you.
So I'm still on the fence on letting my son get one for the tank. I'm learning no matter how clean you keep your system. Your still going to windup getting algae. With this system I've been so anal with husbandry practices. But we are at that point I feel we need a utilitarian fish.

For some reason I thought you were asking about clowns. I would say they would be even more susceptible if they have NEVER been exposed to CI - and you are putting them in a tank which has ANYTHING that has not been QT'd - but - since Algae Barn is selling them - they would be the best place to start. There is no 'test' that I know of - that proves or disproves whether a fish has a 'strong immune system' - though there are things that can be done to maximize the immune system (feeding, low stress, etc)

 

[pjb9166]

LOL... No I'm trying to protect my clowns. I want to purchase locally. Support a local LFS.. Colchester Pet was going to be out choice. Everything I've heard of them was the pride in selling CB fish.

 

[MnFish1]

LOL... No I'm trying to protect my clowns. I want to purchase locally. Support a local LFS.. Colchester Pet was going to be out choice. Everything I've heard of them was the pride in selling CB fish.

Sorry- Misunderstood - I would ask them the question as well as here - see if their rationale has merit or not based on the replies here. The conventional wisdom (which has been questioned) is that tangs are much more susceptible to CI - and - depending on the algae type- may not even help (since that was your goal). Good luck

 

[EmdeReef]

I can’t see why captive bred fish would be more susceptible to ich or velvet than their wild cousins. The notion that they would requires presupposing that i) all wild fish have been exposed to the pathogen, ii) sufficient exposure occurred to acquire immunity, iii) acquired immunity is permanent. While we don’t know enough about ich and velvet it’s somewhat difficult to assume that a mild infection lasting 3-7 days (the likely scenario in the ocean) would produce lasting immunity.

I would always choose a captive bred fish over wild caught. A captive bred fish comes with at least 3 significant advantages - pathogen free (assuming proper husbandry), reduced stress from capture, shorter shipping route, no re-bagging etc., no dietary shock.

Of course if you drop it in a tank with sick tankmates the odds are it will get sick just as likely as any wild caught fish, which on top of having to fight the pathogen is probably much more stressed and likely malnourished...

 

[pjb9166]

I guess I shouldn't be so worried about it then. I know my tank has never seen ich. It can't just spontaneously appear. It has to be introduced.

 

[User1]

I look at it a bit differently. Ever been on a long flight? Say something trans Atlantic or Pacific? You know, those long flights packed with people? Then you hop on yet another overly packed flight while it may be shorter it is in another country? Let us ignore those long flights and just say maybe a long bus ride instead.

You can take a perfectly healthy captive raised and/or bred fish, put it in a home aquarium, and, well, for lack of a better work it is now just as susceptible has the others if not overly more. Said new fish is that healthy person above on that long flight exchanging air who is now only to disembark and be no so healthy in a day or two...

Tall fishing tale aside it is somewhat similar. Anything newly introduced to our home aquariums is susceptible.

 

[MnFish1]

I can’t see why captive bred fish would be more susceptible to ich or velvet than their wild cousins. The notion that they would requires presupposing that i) all wild fish have been exposed to the pathogen, ii) sufficient exposure occurred to acquire immunity, iii) acquired immunity is permanent. While we don’t know enough about ich and velvet it’s somewhat difficult to assume that a mild infection lasting 3-7 days (the likely scenario in the ocean) would produce lasting immunity.

I would always choose a captive bred fish over wild caught. A captive bred fish comes with at least 3 significant advantages - pathogen free (assuming proper husbandry), reduced stress from capture, shorter shipping route, no re-bagging etc., no dietary shock.

Of course if you drop it in a tank with sick tankmates the odds are it will get sick just as likely as any wild caught fish, which on top of having to fight the pathogen is probably much more stressed and likely malnourished...

But thats the point - and the question was 'is a captive bred more or less susceptible to CI'. I was just answering the question - they are not less susceptible - and there are theoretical reasons as to why they would be more susceptible. What if you dropped into a tank that had immune fish that were carriers of CI - but not visible - IMHO-aquacultured tangs would not be 'less susceptible' to CI than wild caught fish.

BTW - you're absoutely correct - for example - if you start a tank(sterile) use proper QT for rock / inverts and then add aquacultured fish 'only'. But - what happens when you put in the first fish that might be 'carrying' CI - and is asymptomatic - or vice versa.