Aquaforest balling

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

In such a comment, he misunderstood what a two part comprised. We have discussed it with him in this forum and corrected his misunderstanding that it was just calcium chloride and sodium carbonate (which can cause an imbalance). A quality commercial two part, such as B-ionic, creates no imbalances. It adds everything Balling does, just in two parts instead of three.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I’m not sure what you mean to say is contradicting my statement. No method can account for certain additions or subtractions of alkalinity or calcium that are unrelated to calcification (say, water changes with a mix that does not match the tank , denitrification depleting alk, etc.). Also, some organisms use slightly more or less calcium relative to alk, depending on the calcification taking place and how much magnesium it contains in place of calcium in the calcium carbonate.

Hence the need for minor adjustments with any method..

 

[Beats001]

OK thats good to hear.
The contradiction is by different people on this forum, or it could be my misunderstanding.
The differences is peoples opinion seem fall into 2 camps.

1) dose equal parts of the balling solutions based on alk and your CA and Mag will remain the same.

2) Dose equal parts of the solutions based on Mag and separately dose alk and Ca.

The 3 solutions need to be dosed in equal amounts.
So I can see potential issues with both of the above.

What would be easier would be if the solutions were able to be dosed based on the 3 major elements. E.g. dose component 1 based on CA consumption. 2 based on Alk and 3 based on Mag.

This seems to be the red Sea philosophy.

What are your thoughts on that Randy?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Not all two parts are even designed properly for equal parts dosing. That’s a simple fact.

Most are, and with all of those, I would start with equal parts dosing and only deviate from that when longer term testing shows calcium is actually getting too high (above 550 ppm) or too low (below 400 ppm). Exact calcium targets are not generally worthwhile.

Water changes will typically mess with the demand ratio, so one cannot expect exact 1:1 long term. That said, 1:1 is better than trying to jigger the doses every 1-2 days.

 

[Beats001]

Not all two parts are even designed properly for equal parts dosing. That’s a simple fact.

Most are, and with all of those, I would start with equal parts dosing and only deviate from that when longer term testing shows calcium is actually getting too high (above 550 ppm) or too low (below 400 ppm). Exact calcium targets are not generally worthwhile.

Water changes will typically mess with the demand ratio, so one cannot expect exact 1:1 long term. That said, 1:1 is better than trying to jigger the doses every 1-2 days.

My main concern is the micro elements when adjusting the dosing.
I just read that the aquaforest micro element dosing is based on Ca and Mag consumption. That seems so vague to me.
Given that Ca and Mag consumption are not the same, and are very low in my tank currently.

That being said, it seems I need to dose equal amounts of the 3 components based on rough Ca and Mag consumption. And dose KH separately.

A few other posters have reported that they dose equal amounts based on alk consumption.
If I did that, my micro elements, Ca and Mag would be through the roof.

Aquaforest recommend dosing equal parts of the 3 solutions and accompanied by a calcium reactor. So that indicates to me that they expect additional Ca and alk dosing.

What you think Randy?

 

[Beats001]

https://aquaforest.eu/en/product/components-strong/
Here is aquaforest instructions for creating the 3 solutions, and what is in each. Notice how they indicate the micro elements are based off Ca and Mag for solutions 1 and 3. And the micro elements that go into the solution 2 are mixed with KH buffer and based on Ca consumption.

 

[rkpetersen]

A few other posters have reported that they dose equal amounts based on alk consumption.
If I did that, my micro elements, Ca and Mag would be through the roof.

That won't happen. The relative concentration of those components in their solutions is so much lower than the alk, that if you saw any increase in calcium and mag levels, they would be much smaller than what you are expecting. You could try dosing equal parts for a few days or a week, with daily testing, and see what levels you get. Easy enough to stop and go to another approach if you don't like the results. Also don't get too hung up over trace element dosing and levels, it's not really such an exact science as all the product manufacturers would have you believe.

 

[Scrubber_steve]

I would start with equal parts dosing and only deviate from that when longer term testing shows calcium is actually getting too high (above 550 ppm) or too low (below 400 ppm). Exact calcium targets are not generally worthwhile.

Water changes will typically mess with the demand ratio, so one cannot expect exact 1:1 long term. That said, 1:1 is better than trying to jigger the doses every 1-2 days.

Hi Randy; can I ask your opinion? Should an 8 month old system that comprises only 3 smallish sps frags, a few largish leathers, zoas, a toadstool, & no coralline algae need alk/cal dosing? Or would regular water changes be sufficient?
cheers.

 

[Martin Kuhn]

Not all two parts are even designed properly for equal parts dosing. That’s a simple fact.
.

I really admire Randy how he again and again answers questions very professionally.
Also, i'm about to put down some notes on dosing Carbonates and especially on "balanced dosing" as forum users again and again ask this.
So i thought this simply "fits" here even if it is still in draft.

kind rgds
Martin

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

My main concern is the micro elements when adjusting the dosing.
I just read that the aquaforest micro element dosing is based on Ca and Mag consumption. That seems so vague to me.
Given that Ca and Mag consumption are not the same, and are very low in my tank currently.

That being said, it seems I need to dose equal amounts of the 3 components based on rough Ca and Mag consumption. And dose KH separately.

A few other posters have reported that they dose equal amounts based on alk consumption.
If I did that, my micro elements, Ca and Mag would be through the roof.

Aquaforest recommend dosing equal parts of the 3 solutions and accompanied by a calcium reactor. So that indicates to me that they expect additional Ca and alk dosing.

What you think Randy?

IMO, trace element dosing based on alk and calcium consumption is no better than a recipe such as X mL per gallon per week since many, if not most, trace elements are used in processes that do not consume alk if calcium (growth if macroalgae, microalgae, soft corals, bacteria, etc.)

But adding appropriate elements to make the system exactly balanced to a seawater residual composition is appropriate.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Hi Randy; can I ask your opinion? Should an 8 month old system that comprises only 3 smallish sps frags, a few largish leathers, zoas, a toadstool, & no coralline algae need alk/cal dosing? Or would regular water changes be sufficient?
cheers.

Hard to say, but simple alk measurement will tell. Also, how useful water changes are in this regard depends on how much higher than the target levels the mix is. An 8 dKH is a losing effort to maintain 8 dKH. A 13 dKH mix may do the trick.

 

[Scrubber_steve]

Hard to say, but simple alk measurement will tell. Also, how useful water changes are in this regard depends on how much higher than the target levels the mix is. An 8 dKH is a losing effort to maintain 8 dKH. A 13 dKH mix may do the trick.

Thanks for your response Randy.

 

[Beats001]

IMO, trace element dosing based on alk and calcium consumption is no better than a recipe such as X mL per gallon per week since many, if not most, trace elements are used in processes that do not consume alk if calcium (growth if macroalgae, microalgae, soft corals, bacteria, etc.)

But adding appropriate elements to make the system exactly balanced to a seawater residual composition is appropriate.

OK, I'll see how it goes and report back for anyone that's interested. Much obliged.

 

[TJ Merrells]

Don't base you're dosing off of daily tests. It fluctuates day to day like a person's body weight. Test and 4 days later test again and see what the consumption is overall over those 4 days. Divide by 4 and you get what u need to dose per day.

That being said I've seen u guys explain what in each 1+2+3+ aquaforest product. I know those are the major elements but I'd like to know where the minor and trace elements are.
Also would it mess up the equation if u wanted to also dose accasionaly products such as aqua vitro fuel??

Does anyone use this method In a tank that requires no water changes?? That's what I'm thinking of doing. A tank with good filtration and the balling method to maintain all my parameters

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Don't base you're dosing off of daily tests. It fluctuates day to day like a person's body weight. Test and 4 days later test again and see what the consumption is overall over those 4 days. Divide by 4 and you get what u need to dose per day.

That being said I've seen u guys explain what in each 1+2+3+ aquaforest product. I know those are the major elements but I'd like to know where the minor and trace elements are.
Also would it mess up the equation if u wanted to also dose accasionaly products such as aqua vitro fuel??

Does anyone use this method In a tank that requires no water changes?? That's what I'm thinking of doing. A tank with good filtration and the balling method to maintain all my parameters

You can do no water changes with Balling or a two part, but they may also require other additives if they are not maintaining them all. Salinity will rise in both cases, so removing some water and replace with fresh will be needed.

I've never seen any manufacturer claim exactly what is in each part of a complete two or three part (including Balling). There are a variety of ways to accomplish the same thing.