Aquarium microscopy findings (vids + pics). Pls identify..

[SaltwaterGuruNeeded]

I once found some odd colored strands in a sample - turned out to be fabric from somebody's clothes (grin).

Jay

@Jay Hemdal Do you think that white snotty stuff is all bacteria, clumped together? It's a few posts up from this.

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

@Jay Hemdal Do you think that white snotty stuff is all bacteria, clumped together? It's a few posts up from this.

I couldn't tell what that was. It looked like bleached algae strands in the macro shot, but under micro, I didn't see any algal cells.

Jay

 

[SaltwaterGuruNeeded]

I couldn't tell what that was. It looked like bleached algae strands in the macro shot, but under micro, I didn't see any algal cells.

Jay

Yeah, it's very strange. This is the white stuff. I have been documenting it. My tank is very cloudy rn. Managed to find a way to take it out but takes a long time.

Tank cloudy during fallow?

Why would my fallowing tank of about 1 - 1.5 weeks be cloudy? Should this be of concern? I have a microscope if you'd like me to take a sample. Tank is 4 months old, fallowing for diseases for 1.5 weeks so far.

www.reef2reef.com

 

[SaltwaterGuruNeeded]

Update: Sun, Sept 19th

 

[SaltwaterGuruNeeded]

Update: Fri, Sept 24th

15m video of the sand on my fallowing tank after a presumed bacterial bloom.

 

[DrZoidburg]

@SaltwaterGuruNeeded I don't think that is an ich cell. Is pretty big and round. Free swimmers with the hairs are a different shape and smaller. Thinking the other is either algae or diatom. Those 2 fast bugs in the picture. One I cant tell. The other I think is a paramecium. It is hard to tell it almost looks like it is doing a barrel roll type movement. Crab shell could be a rotifer exoskeleton. https://www.researchgate.net/figure...assiosira-sp-C-D-Cyclotella-sp_fig3_306212990

Dactyliosolen fragilissimus

www.marinespecies.org

 

[SaltwaterGuruNeeded]

@SaltwaterGuruNeeded I don't think that is an ich cell. Is pretty big and round. Free swimmers with the hairs are a different shape and smaller. Thinking the other is either algae or diatom. Those 2 fast bugs in the picture. One I cant tell. The other I think is a paramecium. It is hard to tell it almost looks like it is doing a barrel roll type movement. Crab shell could be a rotifer exoskeleton. https://www.researchgate.net/figure...assiosira-sp-C-D-Cyclotella-sp_fig3_306212990

Dactyliosolen fragilissimus

www.marinespecies.org

In the video, you'll see most of the things in the pictures... If you watch the video, there is some weird stuff in there. Almost seems like a microscopic brittle sand sifting starfish is in there. Veins of some sort that are moving aswell. Life is exploding in my tank atm.

 

[DrZoidburg]

Fast bugs in video I ment. I did watch it, just not all 15 minutes.

 

[SaltwaterGuruNeeded]

Concerned With 4:22 (Blob increasing in population), 6:43 (Sand Sifting Star Thing), and 13:20 (Breathing web thing) in the video. Alot of the 4:22 things are popping up.

 

[DrZoidburg]

4:22 maybe one of those kinds that sit and wait for food to stick to it. 6:43 that is a good example of what mycelium could look like also. Maybe the same for the webby stuff. Its usually a cell somewhere with networks of strands that feed the whole colony.

 

[SaltwaterGuruNeeded]

4:22 maybe one of those kinds that sit and wait for food to stick to it. 6:43 that is a good example of what mycelium could look like also. Maybe the same for the webby stuff. Its usually a cell somewhere with networks of strands that feed the whole colony.

Thank you so much

 

[SaltwaterGuruNeeded]

Update: Sun, Oct 3rd

What is this? Kinda looks fluke like or those bugs you find in the yard sometimes. This is in my qt tank.

400x

 

[AquaBiomics]

Which opens the debate....

Does ICH always exist in a mature tank? And the fish just have a resistance to it with a good immune system?

No, actually Cryptocaryon is present in relatively few tanks.

Uronema on the other hand is friggin *everywhere*. (Some wholesaler shipments have been 100% infected with Uronema, based on DNA testing. About 20% of hobbyist tanks have it. )

I suspect the reason Ich is present in many fewer tanks we've tested is that the symptoms are quite visible, so the owners don't need a test to identify it after a fish death.

But in terms of asymptomatic tanks? No, the idea that "Ich is everywhere" is an old forum rumor not supported by data.

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Update: Sun, Oct 3rd

What is this? Kinda looks fluke like or those bugs you find in the yard sometimes. This is in my qt tank.

400x

That actually could be a cercaria larva of a trematode! The small size and twin tails leads me in that direction.

Here is a story: 20 years ago, I had a diver emerge from a freshwater tank - she said something in the tank tried to burrow into her arm. She described the twin tails, but in her case, she estimated the organism was about 5 mm long. I was afraid at the time that we had some sort of giant cercaria larva in the system - sampling never showed anything and we never had another report....and she didn't die (grin).

Jay

 

[SaltwaterGuruNeeded]

That actually could be a cercaria larva of a trematode! The small size and twin tails leads me in that direction.

Here is a story: 20 years ago, I had a diver emerge from a freshwater tank - she said something in the tank tried to burrow into her arm. She described the twin tails, but in her case, she estimated the organism was about 5 mm long. I was afraid at the time that we had some sort of giant cercaria larva in the system - sampling never showed anything and we never had another report....and she didn't die (grin).

Jay

Hmm. That's very interesting!

 

[SaltwaterGuruNeeded]

That actually could be a cercaria larva of a trematode! The small size and twin tails leads me in that direction.

Here is a story: 20 years ago, I had a diver emerge from a freshwater tank - she said something in the tank tried to burrow into her arm. She described the twin tails, but in her case, she estimated the organism was about 5 mm long. I was afraid at the time that we had some sort of giant cercaria larva in the system - sampling never showed anything and we never had another report....and she didn't die (grin).

Jay

Whats so interesting to me is, how do all these things just enter my tank?

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

No, actually Cryptocaryon is present in relatively few tanks.

Uronema on the other hand is friggin *everywhere*. (Some wholesaler shipments have been 100% infected with Uronema, based on DNA testing. About 20% of hobbyist tanks have it. )

I suspect the reason Ich is present in many fewer tanks we've tested is that the symptoms are quite visible, so the owners don't need a test to identify it after a fish death.

But in terms of asymptomatic tanks? No, the idea that "Ich is everywhere" is an old forum rumor not supported by data.

I agree - even without DNA sampling, I'm convinced that Cryptocaryon doesn't persist "forever", it either becomes an acute infection, or if managed well, it can sometimes just go away. I don't have a firm handle on the timeline for this, but I'd say somewhere between 6 and 12 months, assuming no new fish added to the system.

Uronema on the other hand is easily sampled by hanging a dead smelt in a tank and looking at it 24 to 48 hours later. Of course, without DNA analysis, when I say "Uronema" I really mean "cf. Uronema" - a Scuticociliate with gross attributes of that genus.

Jay

 

[AquaBiomics]

Of course, without DNA analysis, when I say "Uronema" I really mean "cf. Uronema" - a Scuticociliate with gross attributes of that genus.

This is an interesting point to follow up on. We find U. marinum and U. heteromarinum at similar prevalence in the hobby. I've seen U. elegans in a few tanks.

I am really bad at interpreting microscopy images but to my eye all three of these look pretty darn similar. It has made me wonder whether the "Uronema" we deal with in the hobby is always caused by U. marinum. When most of the diagnoses have been based on symptoms or microscopic examination of ciliates, it seems possible these could all get lumped together.

now you've got me curious to try this dead fish test. Sampling the ciliates attracted to a dead fish might be an extra-sensitive strategy for sampling Uronema...

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

This is an interesting point to follow up on. We find U. marinum and U. heteromarinum at similar prevalence in the hobby. I've seen U. elegans in a few tanks.

I am really bad at interpreting microscopy images but to my eye all three of these look pretty darn similar. It has made me wonder whether the "Uronema" we deal with in the hobby is always caused by U. marinum. When most of the diagnoses have been based on symptoms or microscopic examination of ciliates, it seems possible these could all get lumped together.

now you've got me curious to try this dead fish test. Sampling the ciliates attracted to a dead fish might be an extra-sensitive strategy for sampling Uronema...

So - what I was told (and this is from almost 40 years ago, from my old boss at the Shedd Aquarium) is that the normal diet for "Uronema" is bacteria. The dead smelt serves as a source for the bacteria, then the "Uronema" comes along to feed on that...and then you can find it.

Jay

 

[DrZoidburg]

So - what I was told (and this is from almost 40 years ago, from my old boss at the Shedd Aquarium) is that the normal diet for "Uronema" is bacteria. The dead smelt serves as a source for the bacteria, then the "Uronema" comes along to feed on that...and then you can find it.

Jay

I have came across a paper that suggests uronema can turn to eat actual fish cells, not just the secondary bacteria. Why they do this I don't know. Maybe a high population vs lack of food scenario.
@SaltwaterGuruNeeded If the rock you used was live at some point a lot of these critters have the ability to go dormant. Also possible contamination, or even additives you used might have them.