Aquarium Will Not Cycle

[Cole_Voeller]

I have a 12 Gallon Bookshelf aquarium with a 3 gallon refugium full of chaeto. Tank has been running for months. Ive dosed ammonia, added media and rock, from other established aquariums, and probably used 4 500mL bottles of Microbacter bacteria. My nitrates in the tank are high, but no matter what, the tank is always perpetually sitting at 0.25ppm of ammonia. It is absolutely ridiculous, and I just lost expensive stock because of this. The refugium has all of the used MarinePure, and the rock is in the tank. The refugium has chaeto with two lights that run at night. The flow is slow on this, and there are two nano HOBs on each side of the tank as well. Ive been trying to dose prime to protect livestock as well as doing water changes. The tank is sitting at 40ppm nitrates. There is bacteria enough for that many nitrates, but the ammonia will never go below 0.25. I have 8 saltwater aquariums set up, and this is the only tank I have ever struggled with cycling. Does anyone know what I can do? Im losing my mind over this.

 

[rtparty]

What brand of test kit?

My bet: False readings on the ammonia. The tank was cycled long ago. 0.25ppm ammonia isn't going to kill anything either. Randy has multiple threads on this and they are all recent. Great reads that show ammonia isn't nearly the enemy so many claimed

 

[piranhaman00]

You could have saved so much time by searching anything remotely close to your title including 0.25ppm on google.

 

[GSPClown94]

Likely within the acceptable range of error for the test kit you are using. If you are dosing ammonia and your tank is producing nitrates then something is processing that ammonia into nitrate. Likely fine to start adding fish.

 

[cillam]

The API ammonia test kit is notorious for showing false readings. If you are using the API ammonia test and it just shows .25 you see nitrates and no nitrites then you are good.

 

[Formulator]

I suspect testing error. Your tank is cycled if you have lots of nitrates. There is no way it is that old, supporting chaeto, and not cycled.

I just lost expensive stock because of this.

0.25 ppm ammonia is not enough to kill or even harm fish.

More info on the topic: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/how-toxic-is-ammonia-really.1030601/

Ive been trying to dose prime to protect livestock

Prime will kill fish in excess quantities.

Give this a skim if you are interested in the details: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/a...prime-cloram-x-rongalite-and-friends.1064206/

 

[Cole_Voeller]

What brand of test kit?

My bet: False readings on the ammonia. The tank was cycled long ago. 0.25ppm ammonia isn't going to kill anything either. Randy has multiple threads on this and they are all recent. Great reads that show ammonia isn't nearly the enemy so many claimed

Its API. Unfortunately not false readings. I can do a water change to visibly bring it down. Ive already lost livestock.

You could have saved so much time by searching anything remotely close to your title including 0.25ppm on google.

This reply doesn’t help my situation.

Likely within the acceptable range of error for the test kit you are using. If you are dosing ammonia and your tank is producing nitrates then something is processing that ammonia into nitrate. Likely fine to start adding fish.

Have already had expensive livestock die.

The API ammonia test kit is notorious for showing false readings. If you are using the API ammonia test and it just shows .25 you see nitrates and no nitrites then you are good.

I suspect testing error. Your tank is cycled if you have lots of nitrates. There is no way it is that old, supporting chaeto, and not cycled.


0.25 ppm ammonia is not enough to kill or even harm fish.

More info on the topic: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/how-toxic-is-ammonia-really.1030601/


Prime will kill fish in excess quantities.

Give this a skim if you are interested in the details: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/a...prime-cloram-x-rongalite-and-friends.1064206/

Not enough prime to kill, at least from my experience. Ive been adding a capfull a day. I also use a capful per day for fish in TTM QT, and that is only 5 gallons of water.

 

[Cole_Voeller]

I suspect testing error. Your tank is cycled if you have lots of nitrates. There is no way it is that old, supporting chaeto, and not cycled.


0.25 ppm ammonia is not enough to kill or even harm fish.

More info on the topic: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/how-toxic-is-ammonia-really.1030601/


Prime will kill fish in excess quantities.

Give this a skim if you are interested in the details: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/a...prime-cloram-x-rongalite-and-friends.1064206/

Although, ammonia at 0.25 not being enough to harm fish is surprising. But dwarf seahorses are some of the livestock I have lost, and they are highly sensitive to any ammonia.

 

[Formulator]

Ive been adding a capfull a day.

I would argue that is certainly an overdose. It doesn’t just disappear overnight. You are raising the concentration every day you add it until you do a water change. Also, if you take a look at that thread, you will see that prime and other products that claim to remove ammonia are essentially snake oil. They don’t do squat. They are effective for dechlorination though.

 

[Dbichler]

Not possible to have not cycled in 3 months. Something else is occurring here.

 

[Formulator]

You could have saved so much time by searching anything remotely close to your title including 0.25ppm on google.

I think that’s true of 50% of the threads I see on here… its still fun to discuss, and maybe (if the OP gives me any credit), we stumbled upon a potential issue related to the daily dosing of prime, which I strongly suspect is the cause of the fish death rather than ammonia.

 

[Cole_Voeller]

I would argue that is certainly an overdose. It doesn’t just disappear overnight. You are raising the concentration every day you add it until you do a water change. Also, if you take a look at that thread, you will see that prime and other products that claim to remove ammonia are essentially snake oil. They don’t do squat. They are effective for dechlorination though.

This is interesting to hear. Ive always had great success with using prime to detoxify ammonia.

 

[Formulator]

This is interesting to hear. Ive always had great success with using prime to detoxify ammonia.

I was shocked as well and if you read through that thread at all you can see me start as a skeptic and eventually be persuaded by the massive data set a couple of our members have put together. It seems many of the “proven success stories” are actually just a result of our hobby’s general misunderstanding of the toxicity of ammonia. Most fish will do just fine at levels much higher than any of us would have assumed safe. So when a fish lives and we used prime, we have confirmation bias that the prime is the reason they lived, when in reality there just was never enough ammonia to be a problem.

 

[Cole_Voeller]

I was shocked as well and if you read through that thread at all you can see me start as a skeptic and eventually be persuaded by the massive data set a couple of our members have put together. It seems many of the “proven success stories” are actually just a result of our hobby’s general misunderstanding of the toxicity of ammonia. Most fish will do just fine at levels much higher than any of us would have assumed safe. So when a fish lives and we used prime, we have confirmation bias that the prime is the reason they lived, when in reality there just was never enough ammonia to be a problem.

My issue began when I lost a bluestripe pipefish. Tested and found ammonia. I began using prime on that day. Unfortunately, just the day after, the baby Biota Regal angel I was raising passed away as well. I successfully kept him in TTM QT for 2 weeks, then he goes into the tank that I believe is established, and he passes away as well. So if something else is going on, I have no clue. Ive lost leather corals as well, and my Sympodium has not opened a single time.

 

[cillam]

My issue began when I lost a bluestripe pipefish. Tested and found ammonia. I began using prime on that day. Unfortunately, just the day after, the baby Biota Regal angel I was raising passed away as well. I successfully kept him in TTM QT for 2 weeks, then he goes into the tank that I believe is established, and he passes away as well. So if something else is going on, I have no clue. Ive lost leather corals as well, and my Sympodium has not opened a single time.

That is a lot of stuff to loose but I doubt .25 ammonia is the cause, are you using rodi water or tap water, what is the tds of the water you put on?

 

[GSPClown94]

My issue began when I lost a bluestripe pipefish. Tested and found ammonia. I began using prime on that day. Unfortunately, just the day after, the baby Biota Regal angel I was raising passed away as well. I successfully kept him in TTM QT for 2 weeks, then he goes into the tank that I believe is established, and he passes away as well. So if something else is going on, I have no clue. Ive lost leather corals as well, and my Sympodium has not opened a single time.

Sounds like that pipefish could have brought in some kind of disease since that's when your issues started. I don't think 2 weeks is a long enough quarantine period.

 

[KrisReef]

Not possible to have not cycled in 3 months. Something else is occurring here.

Actually, I wonder if adding chemicals could impact the cycle and prevent nature from taking its course?

Whatever, it is a bummer about livestock being lost in this system.

 

[Cole_Voeller]

That is a lot of stuff to loose but I doubt .25 ammonia is the cause, are you using rodi water or tap water, what is the tds of the water you put on?

RODI that I made, TSS meter reads 0.

Sounds like that pipefish could have brought in some kind of disease since that's when your issues started. I don't think 2 weeks is a long enough quarantine period.

Maybe? They are Biota pipefish however. The 6 I still have seem to be doing fine. I lost another horse last night however.

 

[jcmjoe]

Just a thought, any chance there is stray voltage in the tank ? If you have 8 other tanks and they are fine, I would assume your RODI water is good.

 

[Cole_Voeller]

Just a thought, any chance there is stray voltage in the tank ? If you have 8 other tanks and they are fine, I would assume your RODI water is good.

Im not 100% sure on this. How would I check this?