aquatic t5 + Kessil 360 vs dimmable ATI 6 bulb

[Nimitz87]

so can of worms question im sure.

tank is 90 gallons currently lit with 2 Mars aqua. mixed system but starting to lean towards sps.

bulb choice for either would be coral plus and blue plus.

rock work is 8-10" from water surface. I don't mind shimmer and currently don't have any kind of dawn / dusk or ramp. my lights are on both blue and white from 130pm to 930pm. set 60/20 b/w. dawn/dusk ramping would be nice by no means is it a make or break point Imo.

I'm a fan of @Big E's t5 sps setup.

I know the 6 bulb will have more par than the hybrid setup, the ballast are cooled and better. bulb life ,splash guard , etc. I even get ramping if so desired.

I'm honestly at a coin flip.

so what do I gain / Lose for $300 more for the hybrid ?

 

[Scorpius]

I ran a kessil t5 hybrid and went to an ati t5 dimmable 6 bulb unit. Never looked back All coral will grow just fine with t5s.

You wont miss the shimmer and your corals will be happier.

 

[Nimitz87]

I ran a kessil t5 hybrid and went to an ati t5 dimmable 6 bulb unit. Never looked back All coral will grow just fine with t5s.

You wont miss the shimmer and your corals will be happier.

that's what I'm leaning to, I like the no mess with it too.

how high do you have your fixture, any pictures? you have the exact bulb combo I want to do.

 

[Scorpius]

that's what I'm leaning to, I like the no mess with it too.

how high do you have your fixture, any pictures? you have the exact bulb combo I want to do.

I have my fixture approximately 14in above the water line. I'm SLOWLY working it down to reduce light spillage.
I like the whiter look of 3 B+ and 3 C+. Nice thing is you can run whatever bulbs you want to get the look you're after and still get great coverage. I may play around with bulb combo's someday, but what I currently use has been great for softies to sps.
Get the dimmable unit. Being able to reduce intensity has come in very handy. You can simulate sunrise and sunset as well. One power card for an entire light is a God send. lol
Only issue if you want to call it that is the clock is off approximately fives minutes every few months which is a nonissue for me, but it may be for you. You're light if you get the ati fixture may/may not have this issue.

I'll never go back to LED's until they come out with an affordable panel unit that mimics the coverage of T5's.

 

[Bigfudge]

I ran a dimmable 6 bulb ATI 36" Fixture over my tank when I started, I just switched today to a Hybrid Aquatic T5/ Radion XR15 combo just because I wanted to try it.

The ATI was and is great. I kept it as well to use it in the future if I so choose. It grew everything great! Only complaint I had was I had a 48" tank with a 36" fixture, didn't quite have the coverage I wanted ideally, not the T5's fault.

 

[Scorpius]

I ran a dimmable 6 bulb ATI 36" Fixture over my tank when I started, I just switched today to a Hybrid Aquatic T5/ Radion XR15 combo just because I wanted to try it.

The ATI was and is great. I kept it as well to use it in the future if I so choose. It grew everything great! Only complaint I had was I had a 48" tank with a 36" fixture, didn't quite have the coverage I wanted ideally, not the T5's fault.

I'd rather buy more coral than sink $$$ into lighting

 

[Big E]

so can of worms question im sure.

tank is 90 gallons currently lit with 2 Mars aqua. mixed system but starting to lean towards sps.

bulb choice for either would be coral plus and blue plus.

rock work is 8-10" from water surface. I don't mind shimmer and currently don't have any kind of dawn / dusk or ramp. my lights are on both blue and white from 130pm to 930pm. set 60/20 b/w. dawn/dusk ramping would be nice by no means is it a make or break point Imo.

I'm a fan of @Big E's t5 sps setup.

I know the 6 bulb will have more par than the hybrid setup, the ballast are cooled and better. bulb life ,splash guard , etc. I even get ramping if so desired.

I'm honestly at a coin flip.

so what do I gain / Lose for $300 more for the hybrid ?

Thanks, to no one's surprise--

I prefer the T5 as main lights especially for dominant acropora setups. and LED for supplements (LED strips) if you decide to add. This is the hybrid option I prefer. You can angle a few LED bars slightly inward so the front and back criss-cross for overall bling.

I want a tank that is very bright and all colors pop when you stand away from the tank.

 

[Nimitz87]

so after much debate and reading, I've eliminated LED's from my choices. but have added and am leaning towards MH/T5 hybrid. it's been the go-to standard for a reason right?

https://hamiltontechnology.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=66 looking at running radium 20k bulb's on m80 ballast and either 4x blue+ or 2x blue + 2x coral +

 

[Nimitz87]

would that be too much for a mixed heavy SPS reef ? I have some lower light corals. if I could hit 300 par around 10 inch and 150 ish at the sand bed I'd be stoked.

 

[jda]

That fixture with 20k radium and m80s will be a lot more PAR than 300 at 10". It is OK though... the SPS can handle it, and so can other corals. You won't even need to run the T5s when the Radiums are on - you can save the electricity and bulb life for dusk/dawn and have the bulbs last longer.

If you don't need m80 type of PAR, then get the 20k Hamilton and a set of electronic ballasts... still more PAR than 300 at 10" and less wattage, but also less output. This bulb looks nearly the same as the 20k Radium, only it is made to run on m58 or electronic ballasts.

 

[Nimitz87]

That fixture with 20k radium and m80s will be a lot more PAR than 300 at 10". It is OK though... the SPS can handle it, and so can other corals. You won't even need to run the T5s when the Radiums are on - you can save the electricity and bulb life for dusk/dawn and have the bulbs last longer.

If you don't need m80 type of PAR, then get the 20k Hamilton and a set of electronic ballasts... still more PAR than 300 at 10" and less wattage, but also less output. This bulb looks nearly the same as the 20k Radium, only it is made to run on m58 or electronic ballasts.

I was leaning towards the m80 for the use of radium's if the 20k Hamilton works and is more versatile for other bulb choices I'll go that route.

so am I over doing it for a mixed reef ? maybe I should look into 150w/175w options ? but then my bulb choice is severely limited right ?

I've got about 20 tabs open on lights and your name @jda is in about every single one of them lol.

 

[jda]

150w is a great mixed reef light. There is not a ton of 150w bulbs, 14k Phoenix is available and nearly everybody likes this bulb with a crisp look and nice pop... there are some others, but this the best 150w HQI light, IMO, and you need m81 ballasts for this. This is less heat and power but still good output. If you add in the T5s, there is still a lot of light. You might need to run the T5s all the time with a 150w, but this is why they are there.

The decision between 20k Radium and m80 vs Electronic/m58 and other bulbs purely comes down to power needed. The m80 will be about 30% more output, which not everybody needs.

 

[Nimitz87]

150w is a great mixed reef light. There is not a ton of 150w bulbs, 14k Phoenix is available and nearly everybody likes this bulb with a crisp look and nice pop... there are some others, but this the best 150w HQI light, IMO, and you need m81 ballasts for this. This is less heat and power but still good output. If you add in the T5s, there is still a lot of light. You might need to run the T5s all the time with a 150w, but this is why they are there.

The decision between 20k Radium and m80 vs Electronic/m58 and other bulbs purely comes down to power needed. The m80 will be about 30% more output, which not everybody needs.

one reason I wasn't really looking at the 150 or 175 w options Is the cost is nearly identical to the 250 fixture. another reason was bulb options and future sourcing. I figure 250's will be around longer than the odd ball sizes.

doesn't sound like I need m80's at all. and running the electronic ballast allows me more options as far a bulbs go right ? vs m80 over driving non hqi bulbs being non adjustable.

it also sounds like I'll have to rescape and lower it

what about going with a shorter fixture for example a 36 on. 48 " tank. and use the corners for lower light corals ?

 

[jda]

People have been promising the demise of certain kinds of bulbs for a decade. They are all still around, even VHOs. I would not sweat unavailability - Hamilton will probably always be making them. If you are worried, then give them a call... they are really friendly and helpful.

Your corals will be able to handle this light. These are not LEDs where the spectrum can get bad and you have to keep the intensity low. Even the few softies that I have (bounces, jawbreakers and a few Z&P) thrive under 600-750+ PAR from my MH. The quality is better so you have more intensity... people do not burn corals under 400 PAR of MH like they do under 400 PAR of LED.

I had a 6 foot fixture on a 7 foot tank and I hated it. The ends are already lower PAR, but forsaking the extra 6 inches was not good for me. This is different for all people, so only can really decide if you want a shorter fixture.

 

[Pntbll687]

One thing to look at in terms of features is... Are you going to enjoy/experience those features? Especially the dusk/dawn effect on dimmable lights.

Personally, I leave before the lights come on in the morning and I'm usually putting my kids to bed during the time of "dusk". So for me that feature does not have any value to me. I switched my nano tank to t5 and like it a whole lot more than the current usa lights i had on it. I used a simple fixture used for plants and swapped the bulbs out.

I'm currently planning out a 180 build, and I'm leaning toward the same type of lighting. Keep it simple with a wall outlet timer for on/off and be done with it.

 

[Nimitz87]

People have been promising the demise of certain kinds of bulbs for a decade. They are all still around, even VHOs. I would not sweat unavailability - Hamilton will probably always be making them. If you are worried, then give them a call... they are really friendly and helpful.

Your corals will be able to handle this light. These are not LEDs where the spectrum can get bad and you have to keep the intensity low. Even the few softies that I have (bounces, jawbreakers and a few Z&P) thrive under 600-750+ PAR from my MH. The quality is better so you have more intensity... people do not burn corals under 400 PAR of MH like they do under 400 PAR of LED.

I had a 6 foot fixture on a 7 foot tank and I hated it. The ends are already lower PAR, but forsaking the extra 6 inches was not good for me. This is different for all people, so only can really decide if you want a shorter fixture.

good point on the bulbs, and thanks for the feedback on the fixture length. I find that very interesting on the par numbers for mh vs led, I always assumed par = par.


if the corals can handle it I won't be overdoing it with the 250w over the 175w? if I do get the M80 ballast does that limit me to the radium bulbs and only other HQI bulbs? if not I'm overdriving standard 250w bulbs correct?

https://hamiltontechnology.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=17_74_77&product_id=234 they've got the m80 ballast + 20k radiums as a deal with the 4ft fixture, the electronic ballast adds $100, so it's the same price as the M80's. but if it limits me to only running the stronger radium's then that's a no go.

I planned on running the t5's for 8 hours total and the MH's for 6 total. T5's an hour before and after. I'd start with the MH @ 2 hours per day and increase weekly.

One thing to look at in terms of features is... Are you going to enjoy/experience those features? Especially the dusk/dawn effect on dimmable lights.

Personally, I leave before the lights come on in the morning and I'm usually putting my kids to bed during the time of "dusk". So for me that feature does not have any value to me. I switched my nano tank to t5 and like it a whole lot more than the current usa lights i had on it. I used a simple fixture used for plants and swapped the bulbs out.

I'm currently planning out a 180 build, and I'm leaning toward the same type of lighting. Keep it simple with a wall outlet timer for on/off and be done with it.

exactly, I don't miss it now that's for sure.

 

[jda]

m80 are spec for all Double Ended bulbs and 20k Radium Single Ended Every other SE bulb is for m58, electronic or the like.

 

[Nimitz87]

m80 are spec for all Double Ended bulbs and 20k Radium Single Ended Every other SE bulb is for m58, electronic or the like.

gotcha that makes sense now.

I just need to go look at a tank with MH's in person, maybe someone in the club i just joined has some and I can check them out, no stores I know of have them. most are running LED's either of the big 3, and some supplement T5 but they are rare.

 

[jda]

You might have to ask around a bit. There are about 20 guys that I trade and interact with here in Denver. 17 of them use MH and 3 use all T5s Euro Style (10-12 bulbs) - some have a few supplements, but not many. Only 3 of us have any online presence. If the other guys need something, they just call or text. If you are near a big city, you can find a lot of MH users, but they might not be online too much... they just don't need much and get sick of fighting with the frontrunners and noobies.

If you need some more online viewing, check out oregonreef.com or Copps thread on Reef Central here:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2668064&highlight=copps

I would probably use T5s if I had a smaller tank, but the MH work out well for me with larger areas to cover and I love the heat in this dry climate with lots of evaporative cooling.

 

[Nimitz87]

if I get 250w electronic ballast, can I run 175w bulbs with them?