Are all macroalgae equal

marvelousone · Aug 29, 2018

I know most people use cheato in their sumps. Some use caulerpa and some use others. The nicest looking to me is dragon breathe. The real question has anyone done research on the different types and which remove nitrates the best. I have cheato in mine and is happy with it. I would like to change to dragon breathe. Wondering will it do just as good.

Land Shark · Aug 29, 2018

I’ve wondered the same thing. Tagging

Jl330 · Aug 29, 2018

I was trying to find info on this topic earlier today.

My fuge is full of cheato, gha, and cyano. I may add other macros to diversify but as if now, things are moving along.

1WildBill · Sep 7, 2018

I can only grow algae in my fuge. I’ve tried Chaeto, and a Chaeto/calurpa mix that exploded over night and almost flooded my stand by plugging the filters in the Sump. I’m now looking for something that I can grow. Lots of research ahead.

lapin · Sep 8, 2018

To quote Mr Randy
"They all will take up roughly similar amounts of N per amount of tissue growth."
So what ever grows the fastest will be your choice. (without going sexual and spreading all over your tank). Reds in my fuge grow at a steady rate but not as fast as ulva. Ulva is found in very sunny nutrient rich water. As for chaeto I can never get it to grow very well.

Subsea · Sep 8, 2018

All macro are not the same, just as all coral are not the same. John Mahoney at Reef Cleaners divides macro into three categories:

https://www.reefcleaners.org/stocking-the-sump-refugium

[You want both consistent nutrient uptake and pulse nutrient uptake macros and saltwater plants in your tank.

Here is what I mean by those terms: (They use similar terminology in phycology by the idea is exactly the same)

Consistent Macros- Macros that need nutrient at a high levels, all the time to thrive. They filter out nutrients quickly and are effective at dealing with established nutrient problems.

Pulse Macros - Can handle periods of low nutrient levels well, and are long lived plants

Middle of the Road Macros - as you may have guessed, these macros and plants are somewhere in the middle. They grow quickly in high nutrient tanks, but can endure longer periods of low nutrition as well.

@marvelousone
Dragons Breath is not as hardy as Chaetomorphy. Fish would eat Dragons Breath, so nutrient recycling is an advantage. Also, Dragons Breath could be sold for more money than Chaeto. See what Russ Kronwetter at Live Plants says about Dragons Breath nutrient uptake.

https://www.marineplantbook.com/marinebookhalyfloridana.htm

https://www.marineplantbook.com/marinebookhalyfloresia.htm

jefra · Sep 9, 2018

Also, some macroalgae wage allelopathic war with corals that inhibit their growth: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3203809/

Subsea · Sep 9, 2018

Considering everything swirling about in our reef tank water, it amazes me how complex the coral holobiont is. While I don’t agree with indiscriminate use of GFO, unless there are numerous sponges in your system, GAC is a must.

teller · Sep 9, 2018

Another interesting link:
https://www.live-plants.com
In this they also mention which macro and minor and trace elements macro algae consumes.

marvelousone · Sep 9, 2018

there is some great info. keep it coming.

Artisan · Sep 10, 2018

jefra said:
Also, some macroalgae wage allelopathic war with corals that inhibit their growth: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3203809/

I’m not sure that should be a real concern specifically. It sounds like contact is required, which isn’t uncommon among reef creatures in general anyway. Plants shading corals is probably the bigger concern.

Katrina71 · Sep 10, 2018

Try the macro man on eBay. Look for nori clip to find him easily as a seller. Please tell him I sent you. He will hook you up. Extremely knowledgeable. Clean healthy macro.

helljack6 · Sep 12, 2018

I have a 55g sump for my 90g DT. In the past I have tried ATS and chaeto. Neither of which I can get to grow successfully. My latest attempt was a combination of chaeto and caulerpa, all the chaeto died out but the caulerpa is growing fast and strong. Currently using nothing more than a par38 flood light to light the refugium area 24/7. I have a powerhead in the first chamber than blows flow in through the bottom of the second/refugium to create some current. Over all it's going good so far, haven't had it go sexual yet.

Subsea · Sep 14, 2018

Artisan said:
I’m not sure that should be a real concern specifically. It sounds like contact is required, which isn’t uncommon among reef creatures in general anyway. Plants shading corals is probably the bigger concern.

Chemical warfare is a big concern and it is in the water.

Artisan said:
I’m not sure that should be a real concern specifically. It sounds like contact is required, which isn’t uncommon among reef creatures in general anyway. Plants shading corals is probably the bigger concern.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3203809/

Page 1 last paragraph.

“Artificial mimics for shading and abrasion produced no impact on corals”

I think that the chemicals are in the water. In the confines of a reef tank GAC is required. In my 25 year old tank, I use cryptic sponges to remove these chemicals from the water.

redpine42 · Sep 14, 2018

Jl330 said:
I was trying to find info on this topic earlier today.

My fuge is full of cheato, gha, and cyano. I may add other macros to diversify but as if now, things are moving along.

I'm in the same boat. Just one big mess. Don't see how Chaeto will out compete when gha is all over my chaeto .

Subsea · Sep 14, 2018

redpine42 said:
I'm in the same boat. Just one big mess. Don't see how Chaeto will out compete when gha is all over my chaeto .

Both gha & cyno outcomepete desirable when nitrogen is limited. Dose nitrogen to favor desirables. Manually remove undesirables.

In the case where gha is covering your desirable chaeto you have little chance to turn the tide. Their would be two possible remedies aside from starting fresh by discarding infected macro and scrub/remove offenders from all surfaces. I have done that in most cases.

What I recommend first is to use a 5% solution with tank water of 3% hydrogen peroxide. Use a small test with a 2 minute dip. The different ability to resist peroxide of the firm as opposed to soft fleshy algae is the key to eradicating undesirable and saving desirable.

Using the same analogy, a fresh water dip could have some success.

Subsea · Sep 14, 2018

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/remove-nuisance-algae-from-dragons-tongue.430997/

This thread illustrates the process that I attempted to find eradication threshold with Halymenia dilatata as the desirable macro with infestation of gha. Dragons Tongue was not resistant against peroxide dip at any treatmeant level.

Fast forward to Caulerpa Prolifera/Red Planaria/Xenia ball of infestation. I wanted to transfer Xenia to another system. I dosed it all for 10 minutes in a 10% solution of peroxide. Red Planaria, pods and micro starfish were all decimated immediately. It took Prolifera a week to die off. I experimented with a second batch of Prolifera with a half soak duration of 5 minutes.

I stirred up water cleaning off the glass. Xenia is near back glass looking very happy with macro crud disintegrating and being eaten by amphipods. Closer to front glass is Prolifera showing some distress one week after its soak at 5% for 5 minutes.

redpine42 · Sep 14, 2018

Subsea said:
Both gha & cyno outcomepete desirable when nitrogen is limited. Dose nitrogen to favor desirables. Manually remove undesirables.

In the case where gha is covering your desirable chaeto you have little chance to turn the tide. Their would be two possible remedies aside from starting fresh by discarding infected macro and scrub/remove offenders from all surfaces. I have done that in most cases.

What I recommend first is to use a 5% solution with tank water of 3% hydrogen peroxide. Use a small test with a 2 minute dip. The different ability to resist peroxide of the firm as opposed to soft fleshy algae is the key to eradicating undesirable and saving desirable.

Using the same analogy, a fresh water dip could have some success.

Mostly have Green hair algae taking over. My nitrates are between 2 and 5 ppm and my phosphates run between .02 and .08 ppm. I did a fresh water rinse today and the chaeto look clean and happy. So hopefully chaeto will take over now.

Jl330 · Sep 14, 2018

Subsea said:
Both gha & cyno outcomepete desirable when nitrogen is limited. Dose nitrogen to favor desirables. Manually remove undesirables.

In the case where gha is covering your desirable chaeto you have little chance to turn the tide. Their would be two possible remedies aside from starting fresh by discarding infected macro and scrub/remove offenders from all surfaces. I have done that in most cases.

What I recommend first is to use a 5% solution with tank water of 3% hydrogen peroxide. Use a small test with a 2 minute dip. The different ability to resist peroxide of the firm as opposed to soft fleshy algae is the key to eradicating undesirable and saving desirable.

Using the same analogy, a fresh water dip could have some success.

How is nitrogen different than nitrate?

Subsea · Sep 14, 2018

Jl330 said:
How is nitrogen different than nitrate?

Nitrate is one form of nitrogen. Ammonia & nitrite are the two other parts to total nitrogen. Certain macros & certain corals prefer ammonia to nitrate.

PS. Many dose potassium nitrate. With my large systems, I dose ammonia for economy.