Are blue tangs venomous?

BRS
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Fish Styx said:
You and me both, good sir.
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You're in Washington, DC Metro? You don't hang out with that @Mschmidt character, do you? He claims to be from Baltimore but I'm not so sure they let his type in to Baltimore.
 
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crusso1993 said:
You're in Washington, DC Metro? You don't hang out with that @Mschmidt character, do you? He claims to be from Baltimore but I'm not so sure they let his type in to Baltimore.
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I don't think we've been acquainted, no.
 
As I understood Ciguatera, the offending organism is black Cynobacteria growing in deep water coral and when eaten by parrot fish the algae toxin is carried into apex predators like barracuda that transfer toxin to humans when they are consumed.
 
BRS
Miami Reef said:
I got stabbed in my finger from a blue tang’s dorsal fins. It got me pretty good and deep. Before anyone asks, it was my fault that I got stabbed by the tang.

My thumb feels like it’s burning and throbbing. I slightly bled, but this feels different from a regular puncture.
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No venom. However, note in the copied link that dinoflagellates cause toxic nerotixins to kill.

Ciguatera Toxicity - StatPearls - NCBI Bookshelf

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Ciguatera Toxicity​

Jeremy Traylor; Mayank Singhal.

Author Information and Affiliations
Last Update: June 27, 2022.
Go to:

Continuing Education Activity​

Ciguatera toxicity is a food-borne illness caused by eating fish contaminated with Ciguatoxin. This toxin is a potent neurotoxin, and it is produced by Dinoflagellates, such as Gambierdiscus toxicus. They adhere to algae, coral, and seaweed, where herbivorous fish eat them. Larger carnivorous fish will suffer a toxin build-up from consuming these herbivores. Ciguatera poisoning is endemic to tropical and subtropical regions, mainly in the South Pacific and Caribbean. However, it can be found anywhere fish is consumed. This activity reviews the etiology, presentation, evaluation, and management/prevention of Ciguatera toxicity, and reviews the role of the interprofessional team in evaluating, diagnosing, and managing the condition.
Objectives
 
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That reminds me a story, when many, many ears ago I was snorkeling in pristine Indian Ocean Atoll, in a shallow water and suddenly I was hit with a hot iron in my leg ( at least it felt like that).
That was a Titan Triggerfish attacking me to protect his territory during breeding period. I had a bite mark for few weeks.
Since then I was always keeping reasonable distance from Titan Triggerfish while snorkeling/diving.
 
@Mschmidt meet @Fish Styx

Mscmidt digs this...
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And Fish Styx digs this...
hero-image.fill.size_1248x702.v1611616731.jpg


You guys will get along wonderfully!
 
The mechanism of Ciguatera poisoning is eating the flesh of fish that harbor the toxin. It does not occur from a spine puncture. Ciguatera toxin comes from dinoflagellates that are ingested by the fish; the dinoflagellate toxin builds up in the tissue. Ciguatera poisoning is more likely from predatory fish that consume other fish. The poison is concentrated as it moves up the food chain. Given this discussion, more information can be found at https://www.fishlaboratory.com/fish/blue-tang/

When a puncture wound, or any wound occurs, the initial first aid should be cleaning with soap and water.
If the wound stings, or has symptoms beyond those expected from the actual trauma, then one should assume there is a toxin involved. In general, toxins from fish are heat labile (sensitive) and the first aid should be soaking the injured area in hot water. (Don't burn the tissue!) In general, toxins from cnidarians (corals, anemones, jellyfish) are sensitive to pH. First aid should be treating with vinegar (mild acid). One could also use ammonia (basic) however ammonia is toxic whereas vinegar is not.

The most common serious complication to a wound from the aquarium would a bacterial infection. If it occurs, this would develop over a few days. If an injured area gets red, hot, swollen, tender, or has drainage, then an infection should be suspected. If it warrants a trip to the doctor, be sure to inform your physician that the infection started from exposure to your aquarium. Typically, for skin infections we treat with antibiotics designed for Gram + bacteria. However, the marine environment harbors a lot of Gram negative bacteria. Your physician may wish to use a broader spectrum antibiotic, which covers Gram negative bacteria as well.
 
BRS
JPM San Diego said:
The mechanism of Ciguatera poisoning is eating the flesh of fish that harbor the toxin. It does not occur from a spine puncture. Ciguatera toxin comes from dinoflagellates that are ingested by the fish; the dinoflagellate toxin builds up in the tissue. Ciguatera poisoning is more likely from predatory fish that consume other fish. The poison is concentrated as it moves up the food chain. Given this discussion, more information can be found at https://www.fishlaboratory.com/fish/blue-tang/

When a puncture wound, or any wound occurs, the initial first aid should be cleaning with soap and water.
If the wound stings, or has symptoms beyond those expected from the actual trauma, then one should assume there is a toxin involved. In general, toxins from fish are heat labile (sensitive) and the first aid should be soaking the injured area in hot water. (Don't burn the tissue!) In general, toxins from cnidarians (corals, anemones, jellyfish) are sensitive to pH. First aid should be treating with vinegar (mild acid). One could also use ammonia (basic) however ammonia is toxic whereas vinegar is not.

The most common serious complication to a wound from the aquarium would a bacterial infection. If it occurs, this would develop over a few days. If an injured area gets red, hot, swollen, tender, or has drainage, then an infection should be suspected. If it warrants a trip to the doctor, be sure to inform your physician that the infection started from exposure to your aquarium. Typically, for skin infections we treat with antibiotics designed for Gram + bacteria. However, the marine environment harbors a lot of Gram negative bacteria. Your physician may wish to use a broader spectrum antibiotic, which covers Gram negative bacteria as well.
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I do believe that, in my initial reply to the OP, I stated pretty clearly that they were poisonous to eat.
It is believed that the same toxin they store in their bodies, is used in the production of the toxin from their caudal peduncle and dorsal spines.

Note: initial reply edited to remove my incorrect information about the toxin emanating from an algae named Gambierdiscus toxicus. While that is the cause, you are correct in that it is a eukarote, not an algae. I stand corrected on that.
 
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Mschmidt said:
say fine a few more times and I'll believe you.
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Yikes. I didn’t realize how much I used that word in one post.

My thumb has an adequate sensation and my blue tang is content with life.
 
Miami Reef said:
Yikes. I didn’t realize how much I used that word in one post.

My thumb has an adequate sensation and my blue tang is content with life.
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You're fine
 
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Mschmidt said:
I kid. The joke plays better with my patients.
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Lol. Thanks. I am usually self-aware about my grammar. I typically try to be grammatically correct, and I try to make sure my sentence structure varies to prevent it from sounding monotonous.

However, when I wrote ”fine” three times in the same post, I was rushing. I didn’t even know I did it until you brought it to my attention! My heart dropped when I found out because I felt like some knuckle-headed imbecile possessed me. Why else would I make such a careless mistake?

I can get some brownie points by not confusing venomous with poisonous, right? That’s got to count for something.
 
Miami Reef said:
Lol. Thanks. I am usually self-aware about my grammar. I typically try to be grammatically correct, and I try to make sure my sentence structure varies to prevent it from sounding monotonous.

However, when I wrote ”fine” three times in the same post, I was rushing. I didn’t even know I did it until you brought it to my attention! My heart dropped when I found out because I felt like some knuckle-headed imbecile possessed me. Why else would I make such a careless mistake?

I can get some brownie points by not confusing venomous with poisonous, right? That’s got to count for something.
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Joking Just Kidding GIF


No one is judging your grammar :face-blowing-a-kiss: .... Seriously, it's fine.

:winking-face-with-tongue:
 
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