Are Chromis without uronema a rarity these days?

Zionas · Sep 13, 2020

As the title says, how many of you expect Chromis with uronema as the norm rather than the exception these days?

Do you think it has more to do with an inherent susceptibility or more because of the way they’re handled?

Are single specimens less likely to contact uronema compared to keeping them in a group?

Redfoxtang · Sep 13, 2020

If I were to buy Chromis today they would get a formalin bath as soon as I brought them home. They would also go into QT and be feed GC mixed foods just as a preventative. With the fish trade being so dirty I don’t think being grouped or singled out really matters. Just like ich/velvet/flukes etc. Take precautions with every fish you buy. I treat it as they do have it so why not treat for it.

Zionas · Sep 13, 2020

Wow it really seems like uronema’s a big problem with them today. Since I live in Asia many Western fish medications either aren’t available to me or have to be shipped from the US. Would not be as much of a problem if I were still living in Canada but as for leaving Canada that’s another story.

What if I’m unable to access formalin for fish? Maybe I should just stick to the hardier Chrysiptera damsels?

Were batches of Chromis plagued with disease say 10-15 years ago?

Jay Hemdal · Sep 13, 2020

Zionas said:
As the title says, how many of you expect Chromis with uronema as the norm rather than the exception these days?

Do you think it has more to do with an inherent susceptibility or more because of the way they’re handled?

Are single specimens less likely to contact uronema compared to keeping them in a group?

I began seeing issues with Uronema in green chromis about 15 years ago, and I wrote an article about it for Aquarium Fish International about 10 years ago. It's probable that I had misidentified earlier cases as "bacterial infections" as many people do. Things have gotten worse in the past few years, and very bad this year. Small green chromis from the Philippines and Indonesia are the worst. These are "grade B SE Asian" fish - those are the smallest and cheapest. They get packed tighter, and cannot survive long supply chains without food. You almost never have this problem with big green chromis from the central Pacific. The reports that I've had indicate that due to Covid, the supply chain has gotten even longer (fewer direct flights) and this is making matters even worse.

Green chromis are the most frequently imported marine fish (as of a study I saw a few years ago). At this point, I won't buy any, unless they were collected in Fiji or other good source. Difficult to get the word out though.....

Jay

Zionas · Sep 13, 2020

It looks like I’ll just shun them altogether as where I am they’re all from the Philippines or Indonesia. Have you noticed other genuses of Damsels to have the problems Chromis do? Like Pomacentrus, Chrysiptera etc.

Zionas · Sep 13, 2020

And do you think Green Chromis will return to being “good as gold” someday?

F i s h y · Sep 13, 2020

It seems as if they are a rarity. The worst part is that they can be seemingly healthy and feeding at the LFS or when you receive them... and then quickly go down hill. I think there have always been some misconceptions about their temperament and "schooling" behavior anyways that has caused a lot of fish to die. This just adds another reason to potentially steer clear.

Reefer1978 · Sep 13, 2020

Considering most fish go through the same importers, I'd say once an importer gets a disease, all fish going through them will get it. That's why we treat.

Jay Hemdal · Sep 13, 2020

Zionas said:
It looks like I’ll just shun them altogether as where I am they’re all from the Philippines or Indonesia. Have you noticed other genuses of Damsels to have the problems Chromis do? Like Pomacentrus, Chrysiptera etc.

Mostly I see this in different species of Chromis, small anthias and some wrasses (yellow coris for example). Due to the development time, this issue makes it through the exporter/importer/wholesaler and sometimes the LFS, so the mortality hits directly on the retail customer. If the importers took the hit, you would bet things would change in a hurry!

Jay

Zionas · Sep 13, 2020

Even Yellow Coris and other Halichoeres Wrasses! Darn it! I thought it was pretty much a Chromis and Anthias problem!

The retailers do need to take a hit!

Reefer1978 · Sep 13, 2020

Zionas said:
Even Yellow Coris and other Halichoeres Wrasses! Darn it! I thought it was pretty much a Chromis and Anthias problem!

The retailers do need to take a hit!

It will never happen. They know how to keep the fish alive long enough to sell it.

Zionas · Sep 13, 2020

It makes me sad how it’s greed and profit that drives the world. If I had domain over all the reefers in the world it would be democracy for us, tyranny for them. They’d better know how to keep their heads for long enough.

Reefer1978 · Sep 13, 2020

Zionas said:
It makes me sad how it’s greed and profit that drives the world. If I had domain over all the reefers in the world it would be democracy for us, tyranny for them. They’d better know how to keep their heads for long enough.

I don't believe that's 100% accurate. Most LFS I know are barely making it. It's a very tough business to be in, many stores close, new ones pop up to replace them only to close within 5 years.

There are a few vendors that fully QT and treat their fish. You get 100% livestock guarantee. Did you see the prices? Not too many hobbyists want to pay the price for a clean animal. If more would, there would be more stores offering the service.

Zionas · Sep 13, 2020

I agree. I’d rather save money down the line. Unfortunately people tend to be short sighted. That’s another problem. I would pay more upfront for a clean animal every single time. Every. So you have a business model with short term interests catering to equally short sighted consumers. What a world we live in. Heck I’d pay $20 upfront for a $3 fish rather than attempting 7 times before I get one that I can get to thrive. Also think many species should not be imported at all.

Reefer1978 · Sep 13, 2020

Zionas said:
I agree. I’d rather save money down the line. Unfortunately people tend to be short sighted. That’s another problem. I would pay more upfront for a clean animal every single time. Every. So you have a business model with short term interests catering to equally short sighted consumers. What a world we live in. Heck I’d pay $20 upfront for a $3 fish rather than attempting 7 times before I get one that I can get to thrive. Also think many species should not be imported at all.

As they say "money talks". I listed a $500 mushroom a short while back. Someone contacted me with a $200 offer. Their explanation was, coral die, thus in their opinion fair price is $200. I had to explain that individual person's ability to keep an animal alive is not what sets the price. So yes, I fully agree. Short sightedness is a huge issue, but we can only live with it.

ca1ore · Sep 14, 2020

I have no idea whether uronema in green chromis is the 'norm' or not, but as others have suggested, i think you approach them as if it is. I won't add any commercially-sourced fish to my system without a protracted period of QT.

hotdogmj71 · Sep 14, 2020

So is this a concern for blue/green Chromis only, or is it for all Chromis species?

TerraFerma · Sep 14, 2020

It's hopeless with the Indo/Phils chromis now. Pay up for the Black Axil Chromis from Fiji.

And to Jay's point you get these little tiny chromis from Indo/Phils that should be munching plankton all day. Instead they are starved and come to you really stressed out an malnourished.