Are External Overflows Safe/Reliable?

[smh254]

When my u tube gets air in it that tells me my return pump needs to be cleaned. I just turn my return pump up a little and it pushes all the air out I'll do this until I have time to clean it.

 

[beaslbob]

DIY PVC overflow, if you will. It was extremely easy to make. I use an aqualifter to maintain siphon because sometimes at random it looses it. I've had it on the tank for a year now and I can't say that I've had any issues. The total cost was about $20-30 for all the supplies.

+1

Plus I use a mj1200 powerhead to suck out the bubbles. even with the u-tube full of air only, it only takes 20 seconds to suck our the air and reestablish syphon.

 

[Reab]

That y u test them first. My sump is Big enough to hold the extra Water. The last chamber of my sump is the only thing that would get pumped back in my tank of the siphon breaks and my tank can handle it.

Just messed with mine and lowered the level in the last chamber of sump, broke my siphon, hand at the ready to unplug the return...let the ato run until it shut itself off......and BOOM! no spillage! my system is now safe regardless of the siphon.

 

[beaslbob]

Just messed with mine and lowered the level in the last chamber of sump, broke my siphon, hand at the ready to unplug the return...let the ato run until it shut itself off......and BOOM! no spillage! my system is now safe regardless of the siphon.

that is the test I should have done when I first setup my ole system and now one that I recommend always.
three adjustments
1) no flood power out.
2) normal operation return when power returns.
3) no flood with drain failure.

now you should mark the sump level with a line and insure you never never add water above the line.

and you should also add some kind of u-tube bubble sucker outer thingie also.

 

[Reab]

Yup airline tube zip tied to the utube, sump sharpied and ato set

 

[squillaempusa]

I have never had a problem with air building up. Could be design or utube. Not sure. If it took less than a week for the air to build up I would invest the $15 for an aqualifter. If so. Purchase the little prefilter for the pump, that will help prolong the pumps life, and install a check valve.

it's from the bubbles in the system, prob originating from the skimmer. the amount of bubbles in the water column determine how often the air needs to be sucked out. i'm not really sure how a check valve would help with any of this. it surely doesn't work on it's own for keeping air out of the overflow box. the prefilter is a great idea in theory, but i've used it and it only clogs up, also causing problems. the way to do it is an Aqualifter pumping water (and air) right into the sump, and have spare diaphrams or another pump on hand. been doing it this way for atleast 7-8 years.

being said, my old sump was only a big tub with no chambers, and prob allowing too many micro bubbles into the tank. now i have a 3 chamber sump with a sponge at the end designed to catch any micro bubbles. i haven't tried running the system without the aqualifter, but imo there's a good chance it would take a lot longer for the overflow box to fill with bubbles.

 

[beaslbob]

Yup airline tube zip tied to the utube, sump sharpied and ato set

So now when the drain fails the ato will kick in adding water for the flood.

 

[squillaempusa]

that is the test I should have done when I first setup my ole system and now one that I recommend always.
three adjustments
1) no flood power out.
2) normal operation return when power returns.
3) no flood with drain failure.

now you should mark the sump level with a line and insure you never never add water above the line.

and you should also add some kind of u-tube bubble sucker outer thingie also.

#3 is a big one, that a lot of people forget about.

 

[beaslbob]

#3 is a big one, that a lot of people forget about.

glad to know I'm a people.

 

[Reab]

it's from the bubbles in the system, prob originating from the skimmer. the amount of bubbles in the water column determine how often the air needs to be sucked out. i'm not really sure how a check valve would help with any of this. it surely doesn't work on it's own for keeping air out of the overflow box. the prefilter is a great idea in theory, but i've used it and it only clogs up, also causing problems. the way to do it is an Aqualifter pumping water (and air) right into the sump, and have spare diaphrams or another pump on hand. been doing it this way for atleast 7-8 years.

being said, my old sump was only a big tub with no chambers, and prob allowing too many micro bubbles into the tank. now i have a 3 chamber sump with a sponge at the end designed to catch any micro bubbles. i haven't tried running the system without the aqualifter, but imo there's a good chance it would take a lot longer for the overflow box to fill with bubbles.

The check valve is more for if the aqualifter fails, it will not introduce air into the utube. I would think that micro bubbles were a culprit. I honestly dont think it is a hazard unless the utube is completely reliant on the pump to operate. If it is there to pull air out that would normally accumulate over a week or two, then you would hopefully notice the broken pump before you had an issue on your hands.

So now when the drain fails the ato will kick in adding water for the flood.

Such is why i waited for the ato to run until it shuts off

 

[squillaempusa]

The check valve is more for if the aqualifter fails, it will not introduce air into the utube. I would think that micro bubbles were a culprit. I honestly dont think it is a hazard unless the utube is completely reliant on the pump to operate. If it is there to pull air out that would normally accumulate over a week or two, then you would hopefully notice the broken pump before you had an issue on your hands.

not sure if those little check valves will stop air from getting into the line. they're designed to stop water pressure. but i don't know, never tried them connected to the Aqualifter. and surely you would have time if the Aqualifter pump fails, as long as you pay attention to the levels in the overflow box. my whole point in posting is, Tom's Aqualifters work great, are reliable, and require very little maintenance. i'd recommend one to any person setting up a sump where they must use an overflow box. everyone's tank has some micro bubbles, and some WILL eventually accumulate somewhere. usually the highest spot i'm guessing, which would be in the overflow box. also, the overflow box or it's tubes don't rely on the pump to operate. the aqualifter only keeps the air from building, that is all.[/QUOTE]

 

[Helenareefer]

So now when the drain fails the ato will kick in adding water for the flood.

This will happen unless your ATO is "smart". Also need to make sure you have a pump that will shut off when there's no water left.

 

[WetWhistle]

I have been using my external overflow box for over 20 years and I have not had an issue with it. If it is the tube kind you should take the tube out and clean them at least once a month to be safe.

 

[DeniseAndy]

Hardest part is if the overflow fails and the return pump just keeps going. How do people keep that from happening? Like I said with two tubes I have not had an issue, but curious as to how to prevent that?

 

[Helenareefer]

Hardest part is if the overflow fails and the return pump just keeps going. How do people keep that from happening? Like I said with two tubes I have not had an issue, but curious as to how to prevent that?

You can't, but it's going to run out of water with no supply.

 

[Reab]

Well like we discussed earlier, just make sure the tank is large enough, to hold the contents of the sumps last chamber.

 

[DeniseAndy]

Darn, I was hoping for another safety measure. I usually have a couple to keep from issues. I guess you could put in a sensor on the display that shuts off the pump if it hits a particular level, but that would get costly since I am sure you cannot just get a trip switch easily? I am not an electrician by any means and if anyone knows something I have not heard of (besides hooking it to my apex with a electric switch cuz I have no room on my outlets and such), please let me know. Sorry, hope this is not a hijack, but goes along with the whole HOB issue.

 

[smh254]

Hardest part is if the overflow fails and the return pump just keeps going. How do people keep that from happening? Like I said with two tubes I have not had an issue, but curious as to how to prevent that?

Yeah I thought of that too. I figured Pump is cheaper than new carpet and water damage. I've had a pump run dry and stop running and still work when put back in water.

 

[beaslbob]

Hardest part is if the overflow fails and the return pump just keeps going. How do people keep that from happening? Like I said with two tubes I have not had an issue, but curious as to how to prevent that?

as stated above you can't.
But the pump can run out of water before the display floods.

 

[squillaempusa]

Hardest part is if the overflow fails and the return pump just keeps going. How do people keep that from happening? Like I said with two tubes I have not had an issue, but curious as to how to prevent that?

make sure you don't have too much air building up in the overflow box that would prevent it from draining, and don't have too much water in the sump or last chamber of the sump in case it does. like i was mentioning above, i use a Aqualifter to keep the air from accumilating in the overflow box, and it works great. as far as keeping the tank from overflowing water onto the floor if the overflow box DOES fail, figure out the max water level that you can have in the sump so it'll lose head pressure before that happens. cover the drain hose with your hand and have someone there ready to unplug the return pump. if it looks like the tank is going to overflow, you have too much water in the sump. if it's a safe level, the return pump will start to pump a ton of bubbles into the tank and eventually lose head pressure before the tank overflows. usually the pump won't run completely dry (and burn out)as long as you don't let it go so long that the remaining water will evaporate. there will still be just enough water to keep the return pump wet while it's running. the whole process is trial and error. anyone that runs a sump will tell you to simulate pump failure, overflow box failure, power outage, etc.

another thing you guys need to think about is the placement of the return outlet from the return pump. make sure it's close to the water surface in the tank. if it's too low into the tank, it'll syphon water back into the sump in the event of a power outtage (or pump failure), and possibly spill water all over the floor. so if the outlet is halfway to the bottom of your tank, it'll drain half the tank.

also, i bought a couple of these for my return pump and skimmer pump. this way you don't have to keep unpluging stuff while testing your system or coral feedings, etc.
http://www.amazon.com/Belkin-F7C016q-Conserve-Power-Switch/dp/B005MYN3OO/ref=pd_sim_60_5?ie=UTF8&refRID=1G2M2MDW9ASS8ZMJXR0X&dpID=311tO+Haa+L&dpSrc=sims&preST=_AC_UL160_SR160,160_

but i want one of these

http://www.amazon.com/OUTLET-SURGE-...0940&sr=8-4&keywords=multi+switch+power+strip