Are LFS stores going down in quality?

[jasonrusso]

My absolute favorite LFS closed up shop earlier this year (due to the owner's non-related legal issues, not poor sales) so I have been visiting some other stores. The place that closed always had larger specimens, the colors were brighter, fish were more active, and very few sick or dying fish (there is always going to be one). That being said, they were more expensive but I was willing to pay a premium (maybe $10-20?) for a better fish.

There are 2 more stores near me that are pretty convenient, but I am very disapointed in the quality of the livestock. I stopped at the better of the two on the way home. One yellow tang had cloudy eyes, a tomni tang and a naso tang had obvious HLLE, a foxface wouldn't come out from behind a powehead, etc. These are all out on display for sale. I've been there before and I didn't remember this (this is also consistent with the last 2 times I have been there). Also, most of the fish were very small.

The other place I would never spend my money unless I am in an emergency and need supplies (meds, etc.), because I am astonished at what they have on display for sale. I stopped in earlier this week as I was driving by. Immediately in front is a large angel with one eye (because the other was badly infected), several dead fish, dirty tank glass (don't you want me to see the fish?), and a very large (7-8") blue hippo with awful HLLE and shriveled fins. The hippo was in the larger tanks with the "showcase fish." It could barely hold itself upright. I was sickened and almost asked if I could have it for free because no one in their right mind was going to buy it, but I may be able to save it. I didn't ask because I knew the answer.

Does anyone else see this disturbing trend? My 225 is going through a reboot so I am going to be buying several fish in the near future. Is online my best bet? I've bought from Live Aquaria several times and been happy. I'd rather buy from Petco than either of these places because everything going forward is going into QT with Prazi and CP.

 

[trevormass7]

Yeah I've been experiencing the same. My lfs have disappeared and left just petco and they have the same quality that you're talking about

 

[ngoodermuth]

Same, my LFS is close to petco quality now. I've had decent luck with Pacific Island Aquatics and NY Aquatics...but still... QT EVERYTHING. From what I've dealt with in the last 3-5 years...it's not worth the risk.

 

[jasonrusso]

Same, my LFS is close to petco quality now. I've had decent luck with Pacific Island Aquatics and NY Aquatics...but still... QT EVERYTHING. From what I've dealt with in the last 3-5 years...it's not worth the risk.

As you have probably read in some other threads, I am rebooting due to a velvet outbreak that took out 4 of my 7 fish, so yes, QT everything.

I found NY Aquatics. I think they have good prices (Purple tang for $75....what??), hopefully you don't sacrifice quality. I also like that I am in Massachusetts so the trip is shorter, maybe less chance of human interaction.

 

[Mal11224]

I definitely think that some are, especially the large ones that "specialize" in corals and marine fish. In the lfs near me, I'm starting to see dead fish in some tanks, and fish that don't seem lively. Perhaps not enough effort in cleaning the tanks as well as required maintenance. Perhaps they are under staffed as well.

 

[jasonrusso]

Believe me, I also understand that the margins are thin and this is truly a "first world hobby" so it's always expendable cash which some people don't have. However, this isn't IMO a market that can be taken over by internet sales. I don't think anyone would rather buy from Live Aquaria (we do out of necessity) than go to a LFS to see the fish in person and take him home that day.

 

[ngoodermuth]

As you have probably read in some other threads, I am rebooting due to a velvet outbreak that took out 4 of my 7 fish, so yes, QT everything.

I found NY Aquatics. I think they have good prices (Purple tang for $75....what??), hopefully you don't sacrifice quality. I also like that I am in Massachusetts so the trip is shorter, maybe less chance of human interaction.

NY Aquatic is pretty good, but I still wouldn't throw them right in my tank[emoji12]

He ships in low salinity too, so you'll need to adjust your QT accordingly. But, they've always arrived on time and alive for me (In PA).

 

[Jim C]

Today I went to my LFS and he would not share his AI hydra color settings because I did not buy the lights from him. I guess the fact that I bought all of the plumbing from him and was planning on buying coral through him wasn't good enough.

 

[Biokabe]

It's a trend I see in retail across a wide spectrum of industries, actually. I work in wholesale (not fish, sadly), so I get to see what's going on with retailers all around the country. Right now, we're going through a sea change in retail the likes of which has never been seen before. Many store owners haven't adjusted; these are the ones who are still stuck in the old ways of doing things, where price rules all and it's just a matter of stocking the right products. Without fail, the shops that just want to buy a product, stick it on a shelf, and ring up the sale are the ones that struggle. They have to cut more and more corners, causing their shops to decline in quality and chase away ever more customers.

Meanwhile, the shops that understand the reasons why people go to a brick-and-mortar store over shopping online... those are the ones that do well, but they're also far less common. These are the shops that engage with their customers, find out what they're looking for, offer expert advice, and go above and beyond the call of duty to keep their customers happy. They also often charge more - they don't care that Amazon undercuts them, because they know that they weren't getting Amazon shoppers to begin with.

Running a shop like that, though, is substantially more work than running one under the old model, and it requires the sort of personality that isn't afraid to step out from behind the counter and talk with the customer. The sort of person who can do that and has the wherewithal to run a shop successfully - well, it's a rare breed. And even if you're one of those rare breeds, you still have to be fortunate enough to have the resources to start a shop, and be fortunate enough to find the right space for your LFS.

So it's not so much that LFS, in particular, are going down in quality. Retail as a whole is going through a major metamorphosis, and until that shakes out there's going to be a wide disparity in quality, with more and more low-quality shops brought to the forefront until high-quality shops eventually replace them.

 

[jasonrusso]

Meanwhile, the shops that understand the reasons why people go to a brick-and-mortar store over shopping online... those are the ones that do well, but they're also far less common. These are the shops that engage with their customers, find out what they're looking for, offer expert advice, and go above and beyond the call of duty to keep their customers happy. They also often charge more - they don't care that Amazon undercuts them, because they know that they weren't getting Amazon shoppers to begin with.

Great post! I totally agree! As I have said before, I would much rather buy from a LFS than online, but there has to be something in it for me as well.

I have a friend who owns a framing shop. People bring artwork and pictures to him and pay him sometimes hundreds of dollars to frame a picture!! He has to turn work away because he is so busy. He has a business that cannot be replaced by an online business. I always thought that an aquarium store was much the same, but because many of the shop owners lost their way, that is what is happening.

 

[Biokabe]

I have a friend who owns a framing shop. People bring artwork and pictures to him and pay him sometimes hundreds of dollars to frame a picture!! He has to turn work away because he is so busy. He has a business that cannot be replaced by an online business. I always thought that an aquarium store was much the same, but because many of the shop owners lost their way, that is what is happening.

Well, I'd say it's less that they've lost their way, and more that they never found the way to begin with. I'd say 75% of all shop owners out there would rather just buy products, stick them on the shelf, and fail to sell them, rather than getting out from behind the counter and really connecting with the customer. These are the same ones that are afraid of competition and are always crying about online sales taking away from them, rather than trying to figure out ways to differentiate themselves.

Meanwhile, your friend gets it. He offers a service, values it, and fulfills a need that exists. He's not so quick to devalue his own work as to convince the customer that it's worthless, and he offers something that can't be replicated through Shopify or Etsy. A good aquarium shop should be the same way, and the good ones are. My good local shop, Barrier Reef - they're fantastic, always bringing in interesting new things, their staff know their stuff, and they're not afraid to use online tools to improve the local reef scene. One of their staff members even stepped up to start a Facebook group to replace our vanished local reefing club. Their prices are often higher than what I see online, but seeing the livestock in real-world conditions makes a big difference. I have to drive an hour to get to them, and I'll happily do it even though there's another shop within 15 minutes of me. That shop is more of the bad variety... been in there a couple of times, but never bought anything. The tanks are sad, selection is poor, prices are high and the presentation is pathetic.

 

[HolisticBear]

Meanwhile, the shops that understand the reasons why people go to a brick-and-mortar store over shopping online... those are the ones that do well, but they're also far less common. These are the shops that engage with their customers, find out what they're looking for, offer expert advice, and go above and beyond the call of duty to keep their customers happy. They also often charge more - they don't care that Amazon undercuts them, because they know that they weren't getting Amazon shoppers to begin with.

Running a shop like that, though, is substantially more work than running one under the old model, and it requires the sort of personality that isn't afraid to step out from behind the counter and talk with the customer. The sort of person who can do that and has the wherewithal to run a shop successfully - well, it's a rare breed. And even if you're one of those rare breeds, you still have to be fortunate enough to have the resources to start a shop, and be fortunate enough to find the right space for your LFS.

+1
Very well said and finding the staff for the new model of store is both more difficult and they're more expensive. Like many things, it's simply more difficult than it used to be in the past. When things changes, most people just moan that things have changed rather than adapt. Especially as they often require different skills or more work.

 

[A Toadstool Leather]

At least you guys have a reef lfs nearby. I have only one small reef lfs that I get my livestock from. It's a good store but the only one that is not a city away. The fact that more online retailers exist that sell livestock has hit brick and mortar stores hard. Most online stores are trustworthy enough for people to get all their livestock from them.

 

[cracker]

I've seen the same here . There is only one shop I'll buy any live stock from . His fish are more pricey though which I don't mind. He does lament not being able to keep a "wide" selection because he can't find a wholesaler who has consistently healthy fish. He will though order a fish for Ya and even qt it for a price of course.

 

[Reefinometry]

I think when it comes to a fish store you trust its hard to venture to other stores, I see many new ones open up and dont hang around after the initial rush of curious people.