Are Metal Halides Making a Comeback?

[FL_Reefer]

yes sir Running all three for sure, individually. I've pretty much had the same success under all three as well. Minor trade offs but nothing that would make me say one is far superior.

Are you keeping the same types of corals under all three or do you keep different corals under different lighting types?

 

[sntlewis]

I've run them all: t12, MH (se), pc/cf, MH (de), LED (diy), MH (de)/LED hybrid, LED(name brand). I went back to MH, but there is no "absolutely clear" winner in this war, just a lot of variables/opinions for the individual to consider.... heat, initial cost/ongoing cost, shimmer, color options, visual appeal, etc.

MH (actually a MH/T5/LED hybrid) just works for me!

 

[chefjpaul]

Lots of l.e.d. people watching, but they cant post. Too busy setting spectrums and stuff, they should be free to comment in a few days

True.... been looking for a new T5 fixture......

 

[Sir Chris]

Ok. Wanted 2 make a thread but this is perfect. I'm lookn for 2 2 Bulb T5s and 3 ufo LEDs. We're lookn at the cr180d or p. But I want full control on my phone over them I'm transitioning 2 a 75g from 30g no sump and all I used was a 2 light T5 with a 10k day blue and 6700 blue plus and love it so wanna try LEDs. So what's ur guys recommendations on 3 modular lighting I can mount between the 2 outer t5s and use em for spot par control for sps. Don't have $ or power$ for hps. So LEDs r attractive expecally with tuning color spectrums full control dim and colors like what Red Sea has but not the coin. Thx love u guys edit: and as well as the 2 T5s that fit a 48 1/2 long tank thanks again

 

[malcnunn]

give me a led panel light that mixes or diffuses the light properly and I'll give it a blast , until then I'm sticking with my T5's , you halide lovers are way out of date

 

[BoneXriffic]

give me a led panel light that mixes or diffuses the light properly and I'll give it a blast , until then I'm sticking with my T5's , you halide lovers are way out of date

Mm yess, ive heard of these t5s of which you speak, i hear they make good suplementation of other lights

 

[Big E]

T5's Only need more love in this thread

 

[deerhunter06]

agreed ^.... ive done mh,t5 and LED and I would definitely be using t5 or mh

 

[malcnunn]

yes ... supplementing more t5's
I thought by now we would have been using LED cob/multichip setups that look similar to halides , any reasoning this never seemed to happen and instead manufacturers do the puck thing ?

 

[BoneXriffic]

yes ... supplementing more t5's
I thought by now we would have been using LED cob/multichip setups that look similar to halides , any reasoning this never seemed to happen and instead manufacturers do the puck thing ?

Because why try to look like halides when you can just have them! Lol.

Honestly though, ive seen plenty of t5 halide and t5 led combos....love em

 

[Reefbrite]

I have run halides for years for one simple reason. Spectral composition. It is hard to beat the spectral composition of a metal halide lamp. I manufacture lighting and do a lot of testing with a spectrometer, not a PAR meter, the facts are the facts. PAR meters cannot tell you anything about the spectral composition of the light source being tested. Apogee themselves will tell you this. Also, LED's cannot produce the UVT that halide lamps can. We are getting closer with LED's I can say that but since many corals respond to light in the UV region, halides are still your best bet for this purpose. As for power a watt is a watt no different than a photon is a photon. Energy is not free. Since the luminous efficacy of LED's and halides are similar, to produce the same amount of optical energy over a given area the same amount of energy or power will be required. Ohm's law (amps X voltage equals watts)(another note: with LED's do not use input power). The input voltage from your wall plug is stepped down allowing for more amperage to be available at the LED. So if your fixture is rated at 120 watts based on your input voltage from the wall you will use 1 Amp but if we used an easy to calculate example, the same fixture using a lower voltage LED driver say 60 volts for ease of explanation, the LED's are actually using 2 amps. If you are running an LED system check your power supply, the information is right there. What about the light readings/measurements from LED's? LED's can give misleading light readings due to the focusing optics often used but if you added up the TOTAL amount of optical energy over the same given area you get a very different picture (inverse square law). When you factor in the optical energy in the UV region halide wins hands down. Don't take my word for it, the shorter the wavelength the greater the energy level of the photon. Also in nature the light received by corals is incoherent (scattered) not focused as is the case with many LED's which is why many LED users cannot run their fixtures at 100% unless they mount them very high. By the way, LED's degrade no different than lamps or any other light source for that matter. When you replace a lamp you restore initial luminous output, where as LED's continually degrade over time. When I see the cost of many corals these days $500, even a $1000 in lamp replacement costs over a 5 year period is nothing compared to the price I see hobbyist pay for a few high end frags. With that kind of investment in corals doesn't it make sense to protect it? After 5 years what will new LED fixtures cost you? As with any lighting there are pro's and con's and in my opinion and experience, yes you can be very successful with T5, LED, and Halide it depends on the application. The biggest problem with our hobby is that it is all about absolutes. If you do not run or feed this, you cannot grow that. I say B.S. I have seen successful reef tanks under PC lighting and P.C's were essentially banished from our industry years ago in favor of T5. The irony here is a PC lamp is essentially a folded T5 lamp! They operate identically. It saddens me that with all the information available today we are still comparing light sources based on wattage and PAR when neither have anything to do with their optical and spectral performance respectively.

 

[FL_Reefer]

Schooled... I love your guys bulbs, I run your 20k and you XHO's

 

[Reefbrite]

Thank you very much. I am just trying to present the actual facts and not the hype that so often plagues our hobby. I appreciate your support.

 

[BoneXriffic]

Thank you very much. I am just trying to present the actual facts and not the hype that so often plagues our hobby. I appreciate your support.

So, this said what are your thoughts about the t5 vs halide? And how do you feel about the halide t5 and halide le.d hybrids?

 

[Battlecorals Verified Sponsor]

Are you keeping the same types of corals under all three or do you keep different corals under different lighting types?

Correct, I have multiple mothers under all three, Halide T5 and Led, including many grown under LEDs from small frags. they have lived their entire life under LED now. If I posted some side by sides I can assure you they would be difficult to pick out what was grown where lol.

 

[Reefbrite]

T5 and halides are two different animals and each has it pro's and con's depending on application no different than LED's. I see a lot of very successful systems using T5 and have for years so it would be foolish of me to say either is better because again it comes down to application. The key regardless of what lighting you are using is spectral composition, not PAR or even wattage. As for halide T5, and halide LED, even T5 LED combinations I feel they are a great solution and alternative to providing the proper spectral composition while also providing the pop in corals that has become so popular these days.

 

[shred5]

I have run halides for years for one simple reason. Spectral composition. It is hard to beat the spectral composition of a metal halide lamp. I manufacture lighting and do a lot of testing with a spectrometer, not a PAR meter, the facts are the facts. PAR meters cannot tell you anything about the spectral composition of the light source being tested. Apogee themselves will tell you this. Also, LED's cannot produce the UVT that halide lamps can. We are getting closer with LED's I can say that but since many corals respond to light in the UV region, halides are still your best bet for this purpose. As for power a watt is a watt no different than a photon is a photon. Energy is not free. Since the luminous efficacy of LED's and halides are similar, to produce the same amount of optical energy over a given area the same amount of energy or power will be required. Ohm's law (amps X voltage equals watts)(another note: with LED's do not use input power). The input voltage from your wall plug is stepped down allowing for more amperage to be available at the LED. So if your fixture is rated at 120 watts based on your input voltage from the wall you will use 1 Amp but if we used an easy to calculate example, the same fixture using a lower voltage LED driver say 60 volts for ease of explanation, the LED's are actually using 2 amps. If you are running an LED system check your power supply, the information is right there. What about the light readings/measurements from LED's? LED's can give misleading light readings due to the focusing optics often used but if you added up the TOTAL amount of optical energy over the same given area you get a very different picture (inverse square law). When you factor in the optical energy in the UV region halide wins hands down. Don't take my word for it, the shorter the wavelength the greater the energy level of the photon. Also in nature the light received by corals is incoherent (scattered) not focused as is the case with many LED's which is why many LED users cannot run their fixtures at 100% unless they mount them very high. By the way, LED's degrade no different than lamps or any other light source for that matter. When you replace a lamp you restore initial luminous output, where as LED's continually degrade over time. When I see the cost of many corals these days $500, even a $1000 in lamp replacement costs over a 5 year period is nothing compared to the price I see hobbyist pay for a few high end frags. With that kind of investment in corals doesn't it make sense to protect it? After 5 years what will new LED fixtures cost you? As with any lighting there are pro's and con's and in my opinion and experience, yes you can be very successful with T5, LED, and Halide it depends on the application. The biggest problem with our hobby is that it is all about absolutes. If you do not run or feed this, you cannot grow that. I say B.S. I have seen successful reef tanks under PC lighting and P.C's were essentially banished from our industry years ago in favor of T5. The irony here is a PC lamp is essentially a folded T5 lamp! They operate identically. It saddens me that with all the information available today we are still comparing light sources based on wattage and PAR when neither have anything to do with their optical and spectral performance respectively.

Tullio.
Hey buddy..
Anyone ever wants to talk lighting with someone this is the guy!
Better yet he give talks at allot of the convention, So see one of his talks.
To me Tullio And Dana are the two smartest people in this field in the hobby.
I also work in the lighting industry but mine experience is more commercial, industrial, retail etc.
Say Hi to Joy for me.

 

[shred5]

Correct, I have multiple mothers under all three, Halide T5 and Led, including many grown under LEDs from small frags. they have lived their entire life under LED now. If I posted some side by sides I can assure you they would be difficult to pick out what was grown where lol.

Adam the question is do you have any large colonies under leds?. Like I said the shadowing/self shading for me is the bad part, they are fine on my frag tanks but on my full colonies I need allot more Fixtures than recommended. Lps do frigged great under them.
I am supposed to be betta testing a new led fixture coming up on my frag tanks. It will be going up against t-5 and a halide fixture. I have not heard much so maybe it fell through.

I think with sps UV used to be a big issue but now allot of fixtures are getting around the 400 nm range and the Kessils are even lower so this is becoming less and less a problem.

 

[Reefbrite]

Tullio.
Hey buddy..
Anyone ever wants to talk lighting with someone this is the guy!
Better yet he give talks at allot of the convention, So see one of his talks.
To me Tullio And Dana are the two smartest people in this field in the hobby.
I also work in the lighting industry but mine experience is more commercial, industrial, retail etc.
Say Hi to Joy for me.

Thank you for the kind words

 

[nitro]

I love to read all these posts, there is so much information and so much to learn. That is the big problem when it comes time on deciding which way to go. I have been flooded with LED lights and information so I thought that was the way to go, but after a little research that was far from the truth. I will keep reading and learning and go from there...