Are mixed macro algae tanks harder to keep than SPS tanks

[sixty_reefer]

Let me clarify that am not talking about common Refugium Macro algae’s, am talking display algae’s that seem to outcompete each other’s long therm in aquaria. To date I’ve not seen yet a planted saltwater saltwater system to last over a couple years without losing most species. Is it just me or it is way harder to keep macro algae compared to coral.

 

[jsker]

Good question.

 

[sixty_reefer]

Good question.

I’ve followed many amazing macro algae builds over the years, unfortunately not seen many pass the 2 year mark without big losses on stock. I would put a macro algae tank up there along wIth NPS as difficulty level maybe harder

 

[jsker]

I’ve followed many amazing macro algae builds over the years, unfortunately not seen many pass the 2 year mark without big losses on stock. I would put a macro algae tank up there along wIth NPS as difficulty level maybe harder

I have a theory about system age and failures. I see quite a few members break down there systems, around the three year mark or later with issues they can not figure out.

 

[sixty_reefer]

I have a theory about system age and failures. I see quite a few members break down there systems, around the three year mark or later with issues they can not figure out.

that’s true, in addition am not sure if you aware that macro algae have a more complex chemical warfare than coral, that’s why many people have luck in “outcompeting” pest algae’s, in reality there is a chemical war happening that can’t be seen. Algaes fight for space in a similar to coral making it almost impossible to keep them together.

 

[jsker]

that’s true, in addition am not sure if you aware that macro algae have a more complex chemical warfare than coral, that’s why many people have luck in “outcompeting” pest algae’s, in reality there is a chemical war happening that can’t be seen. Algaes fight for space in a similar to coral making it almost impossible to keep them together.

I have not thought about algae out competing each other.

 

[sixty_reefer]

I have not thought about algae out competing each other.

I have been into algae since I’ve started the hobby, always had the ambition to mimic the wild reefs covered in all different algae’s, sponges and coral. Unfortunately always failed the 10 plus species. Had a lot of discussion with fellow reefers and most agree that macro algae mixed reef is almost impossible to keep long therm in home aquaria, if not impossible.
It’s crazy how they outcompete each other to even to people that just keep a few species in the sump there’s always one that flourishes and the other just barely survive.

 

[jsker]

I have been into algae since I’ve started the hobby, always had the ambition to mimic the wild reefs covered in all different algae’s, sponges and coral. Unfortunately always failed the 10 plus species. Had a lot of discussion with fellow reefers and most agree that macro algae mixed reef is almost impossible to keep long therm in home aquaria, if not impossible.
It’s crazy how they outcompete each other to even to people that just keep a few species in the sump there’s always one that flourishes and the other just barely survive.

I wonder if running a ultra low nutrient system has more success.

 

[sixty_reefer]

I wonder if running a ultra low nutrient system has more success.

Could be interesting

 

[Garf]

Let me clarify that am not talking about common Refugium Macro algae’s, am talking display algae’s that seem to outcompete each other’s long therm in aquaria. To date I’ve not seen yet a planted saltwater saltwater system to last over a couple years without losing most species. Is it just me or it is way harder to keep macro algae compared to coral.

Algae’s release a lot of compounds that may be either helpful to other algae’s, or deadly (not just other algae’s, but themselves also). Excessive use of activated carbon may be useful, however because a lot of these exudates are sugars, the carbon may be rendered useless very quickly as they clog up with bacteria. Some algae’s also have a relationship with bacteria that can be skewed by excessive sugars and exudates. Now, if you could think of a way of harnessing these sugars and stuff quickly (some sort of surface area maximized filter), it could help. When I turbo charged my ATS I got the slime bacteria growing in my sump, related to carbon dosing. However the boom and bust carbon dosing from an ATS should be minimized if you can keep a decent population of algae’s alive constantly.

 

[sixty_reefer]

Algae’s release a lot of compounds that may be either helpful to other algae’s, or deadly (not just other algae’s, but themselves also). Excessive use of activated carbon may be useful, however because a lot of these exudates are sugars, the carbon may be rendered useless very quickly as they clog up with bacteria. Some algae’s also have a relationship with bacteria that can be skewed by excessive sugars and exudates. Now, if you could think of a way of harnessing these sugars and stuff quickly (some sort of surface area maximized filter), it could help. When I turbo charged my ATS I got the slime bacteria growing in my sump, related to carbon dosing. However the boom and bust carbon dosing from an ATS should be minimized if you can keep a decent population of algae’s alive constantly.

That’s my understanding also, carbon don’t seem to be able to absorb this, maybe because it’s not a chemical. It’s not fully known witch one’s release more of this to the water column.

 

[2000se]

Could be interesting

I would think the opposite.
Also, on the outcompeting thing, some algae just grow faster than others. Can’t compete with that.

 

[sixty_reefer]

I would think the opposite.
Also, on the outcompeting thing, some algae just grow faster than others. Can’t compete with that.

Not Always, for example look at the common species in the hobby like chaeto and caleurpa, they both fast growing algae’s on they’re own but if added together the caleurpa will always be the main species in the sump.

 

[sixty_reefer]

@Aqua Man thank you for the tag on @Tigahboy macro algae build, if you don’t mind I will reply on here to avoid spamming is awesome thread.

on his build you can see evidence from what I am trying to say about how hard is to keep macro algae’s living in harmony on a closed system.
on his 45 the Red gracilaria have been the algae with more growth during the two years that the tank been running, changing once to the blue hypnea. And occasionally algaes have that where thriving where lost all the sudden. Tigahboy is a very experienced reefer with macros and this has happened with him also.

 

[Aqua Man]

on his build you can see evidence from what I am trying to say about how hard is to keep macro algae’s living in harmony on a closed system.

Does seem like there is more upkeep in a system like that. Need to constantly trim back the fast growers so they don’t take over!

Coral also can take over a tank if not trimmed or placed properly. Green star polyps, blue discosoma shrooms and Xenia come to mind.

 

[JoJosReef]

I don't understand this thread. Are you saying that macroalgae in the DT engage in chemical/biowarfare with each other to suppress the other species? Is this a reference to them eventually going sexual? Or are you talking about a constant mechanism of actively suppressing other macro? Or are we talking about faster-growing macro overtaking slower growing macro? Or maybe faster growers sucking up all the nutrients? Are these tanks being actively pruned, or left to grow wild?

In the tanks where certain species dominate, can it be excluded that tank parameters are not more favorable to the dominant species?

These are valid question. I am starting a mixed reef with about 1/4 macro. Currently: brotycladia, galaxaura, pom pom gracilaria, blue hypnea (what little is left after the snails destroyed the mat), and codium. I plan on keeping everything pruned to its designated areas. I am hoping for more than a year of success...

 

[sixty_reefer]

I don't understand this thread. Are you saying that macroalgae in the DT engage in chemical/biowarfare with each other to suppress the other species? Is this a reference to them eventually going sexual? Or are you talking about a constant mechanism of actively suppressing other macro? Or are we talking about faster-growing macro overtaking slower growing macro? Or maybe faster growers sucking up all the nutrients? Are these tanks being actively pruned, or left to grow wild?

In the tanks where certain species dominate, can it be excluded that tank parameters are not more favorable to the dominant species?

These are valid question. I am starting a mixed reef with about 1/4 macro. Currently: brotycladia, galaxaura, pom pom gracilaria, blue hypnea (what little is left after the snails destroyed the mat), and codium. I plan on keeping everything pruned to its designated areas. I am hoping for more than a year of success...

Am talking chemical warfare between algae’s this is more noticeable on 10 plus species tanks where all the sudden some will perish, they all have light, nutrients and trace elements available at the same rate as other species in the same system.

 

[sixty_reefer]

Does seem like there is more upkeep in a system like that. Need to constantly trim back the fast growers so they don’t take over!

Coral also can take over a tank if not trimmed or placed properly. Green star polyps, blue discosoma shrooms and Xenia come to mind.

Keep them trim is not hard, it’s keeping all of them alive that is difficult, it’s probably similar to having a torch coral and a hammer coral at both ends of the tank although they would be able to fight

 

[Aqua Man]

@Eagle_Steve how many varieties of algae do you have in your tanks?

 

[Eagle_Steve]

@Eagle_Steve how many varieties of algae do you have in your tanks?

Currently about 15-16.