Are Natural Systems Smart

ca1ore · Dec 15, 2018

That was not my point. More just theoretical musing about how we short circuit natural food webs.

KrisReef · Dec 15, 2018

Subsea said:
Follow the money and form your own opinion. Confessions of An Economic Hitman should give you a road map.

PS: So that you understand some of my points on conspiracy theory, my four combat tours in Cambodia was a CIA mission. I may use differrent glasses to see the hidden conspiracy.

@Subsea You started this thread with: "When I think of “natural systems”, three things come to mind: Minimalistic, Laissez Faire and Economical. I believe in a natural order of things as determined by a Creator. "

The minute I read that introduction I wanted to ask you, does your understanding of our Creator include sovereignty over the creation? (Mine does.)

I've come across a lot of folks who were active in wars that the USA never officially fought in. I love my country, but I hate the world and how it works amongst mankind. Man (is not) kind.

Anyway, I hope you have some understanding of peace after the battle. Peace Subsea!

Subsea · Dec 15, 2018

KrisReef said:
@Subsea You started this thread with: "When I think of “natural systems”, three things come to mind: Minimalistic, Laissez Faire and Economical. I believe in a natural order of things as determined by a Creator. "

The minute I read that introduction I wanted to ask you, does your understanding of our Creator include sovereignty over the creation? (Mine does.)

I've come across a lot of folks who were active in wars that the USA never officially fought in. I love my country, but I hate the world and how it works amongst mankind. Man (is not) kind.

Anyway, I hope you have some understanding of peace after the battle. Peace Subsea!

Thank you.

I have more than some understanding of Peace. I am at Peace with who I am, as I strive to grow in my relation to the Creator and His Creation.

Yes, God gave mankind stewardship over Earth and His Creation. We are the Master Gardner, not dissimilar to Reef Keeper.

PS: After reading you post a second time, I laughed at the double pun of mankind &
“Man is not kind”

Cambodia was a long time ago.. Now, I live each day to its fullest.

Jase4224 · Dec 16, 2018

I once had a 300gal which also had a plenum! It had a one inch gap with egg crate, fibre glass screen and 6 inches of Caribsea Florida crushed coral. My LR was suspended using PVC pipe for maximum flow over the top.

My inspiration for this was from The Reef Aquarium Vol.3. Personally I would not recommend this method as even with frequent vacuuming it would constantly clog up with detritus. Perhaps I did not have enough micro fauna? Maybe I added fish too fast? I was young so probably made many mistakes.

I find it interesting to see someone else using this method and having success.

Do you have an FTS?

Subsea · Dec 16, 2018

I will not do a substrate > 2”. In the future, I will use reverse up flow.

Dr. Dendrostein · Dec 16, 2018

Subsea said:
I will not do a substrate > 2”. In the future, I will use reverse up flow.

If your doing reverse flow, what's it going to flow thru?

Subsea · Dec 16, 2018

Jomama said:
If your doing reverse flow, what's it going to flow thru?

Old style undergravel filter removed water from the Plenum which sucked detritus deeper into sandbed. I will pump water into the void of the Plenum which will push water up thru the sandbed. I find that with sufficient oxygen, micro fauna & fana in sandbed will process nutrients thru complex food webs. I see drawf angels, Tangs and mandarins grazing in the substrate continually.

Scrubber_steve · Dec 16, 2018

Subsea said:
Old style undergravel filter removed water from the Plenum which sucked detritus deeper into sandbed. I will pump water into the void of the Plenum which will push water up thru the sandbed. I find that with sufficient oxygen, micro fauna & fana in sandbed will process nutrients thru complex food webs. I see drawf angels, Tangs and mandarins grazing in the substrate continually.

You'll be Paul B's bestie from here on in Subsy

Subsea · Dec 16, 2018

Scrubber_steve said:
You'll be Paul B's bestie from here on in Subsy

I have known @Paul B for > 15 years. I mimicked his reverse flow on my newest tank 120G at one year birthday this week.

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/wet-salty-for-christmas-2017.428100/

Subsea · Dec 16, 2018

Scrubber_steve said:
You'll be Paul B's bestie from here on in Subsy

I just had a vision of Paul & I as the Bestie Brothers. We were both in the jungles of Cambodia/Vietnam at the same time. We both started Marie aquarium in 1971. Now, we both have titanium knees.

Dr. Dendrostein · Dec 16, 2018

Subsea said:
I just had a vision of Paul & I as the Bestie Brothers. We were both in the jungles of Cambodia/Vietnam at the same time. We both started Marie aquarium in 1971. Now, we both have titanium knees.

You guys are old, everything you mention we read in history books in HS. College too. Living fossils

Subsea · Dec 17, 2018

Jomama said:
You guys are old, everything you mention we read in history books in HS. College too. Living fossils

When @Paul B told me he was going to rewrite history, I didn’t know he was going to have soo much fun doing it.

Subsea · Dec 17, 2018

Jase4224 said:
I once had a 300gal which also had a plenum! It had a one inch gap with egg crate, fibre glass screen and 6 inches of Caribsea Florida crushed coral. My LR was suspended using PVC pipe for maximum flow over the top.

My inspiration for this was from The Reef Aquarium Vol.3. Personally I would not recommend this method as even with frequent vacuuming it would constantly clog up with detritus. Perhaps I did not have enough micro fauna? Maybe I added fish too fast? I was young so probably made many mistakes.

I find it interesting to see someone else using this method and having success.

Do you have an FTS?

Yes

Subsea · Dec 17, 2018

ca1ore said:
That was not my point. More just theoretical musing about how we short circuit natural food webs.

By manipulating consumers, we can favor the niches we wish to enhance at the expense of other niches. Some food webs like Dino’s are not desirable in a reef tank, yet they are a type of phytoplankton.