Are nutrients truly zero? Is this really a problem?

[arking_mark]

Even though your numbers went up slightly as you indicated your tank matures they were not high at all. Why even put more chemicals in to lower them? Was your tank showing negative reactions? Seems like it is easily managed with proper feeding and water change? Maybe more wet skim? Just don't see the point of always reacting with chemicals dosing.

Glad you asked. Since the nutrients and alk started increasing I have been experiencing STN of 2 SPS colonies. I'm very big on stability and was trying to bring my nutrients back in line.

Reducing feedings did not bring down the nutrients and my skimmer is used mostly for pH control. However, it produces over 1000-2000ml of very wet skim a week.

I have an automated 1% daily water change.

I'm not sure I would categorize carbon dosing a chemicals.

 

[X-37B]

Yeah. This is also one way to run the aquarium.

Funny! Your right! Their are many ways to a successful reef.
I think this is where so many new reefers get confused. At least it seems from so many threads on how to be a success in this hobby.

 

[J1a]

Funny! Your right! Their are many ways to a successful reef.
I think this is where so many new reefers get confused. At least it seems from so many threads on how to be a success in this hobby.

The worst would be if they take a bit from each method, and combine them into a chimera, which doesn't work.

 

[X-37B]

The worst would be if they take a bit from each method, and combine them into a chimera, which doesn't work.

Yes I think that happens quite often.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Maybe it's just me, but I feel increase feeding so that we can carbon dose to remove the excess nutrients to be kind of taking the detour. If bacteria is what we want to provide to the filter feeders, why don't we add them straightaway.

Adding bacteria would be fine if you could easily do so.

Vinegar is far cheaper, is without apparent issues that I have seen, is easy to spread out and dose, they are alive, are not adding nutrients to the tank, and most importantly, it works, at least in my case, to increase the growth of filter feeders such as sponges.

The O2 issue is one that I take into account by dosing the vinegar during the late morning to early afternoon, tank time.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

The worst would be if they take a bit from each method, and combine them into a chimera, which doesn't work.

Certainly true, which is why the chemistry forum here strives to have folks understand everything that is done, and not just provide recipes.

A perfect example is tap water. It annoys me no end when someone asks if tap water is OK, and folks answer that it works for them. That is only useful info if they have identical tap water, which often isn't true even of your next door neighbor on the same water supply.

 

[arking_mark]

Adding bacteria would be fine if you could easily do so.

Vinegar is far cheaper, is without apparent issues that I have seen, is easy to spread out and dose, they are alive, are not adding nutrients to the tank, and most importantly, it works, at least in my case, to increase the growth of filter feeders such as sponges.

The O2 issue is one that I take into account by dosing the vinegar during the late morning to early afternoon, tank time.

So DIY NoPox is 500ml of vinegar, 375ml of vodka, and 125ml of RODI. I'm down to dosing 0.25ml 4x day in a 400L tank.

Seems so little.

 

[Pico bam]

So DIY NoPox is 500ml of vinegar, 375ml of vodka, and 125ml of RODI. I'm down to dosing 0.25ml 4x day in a 400L tank.

Seems so little.

wish I tried this before I bought 100$ worth of nopox...

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

So DIY NoPox is 500ml of vinegar, 375ml of vodka, and 125ml of RODI. I'm down to dosing 0.25ml 4x day in a 400L tank.

Seems so little.

I found in my tank (120 gallon display) I could dose a super wide range of vinegar, up to 410 mL per day (which appeared to be too much as the water clouded).

IIRC, I settled on a daily dose of about 100 mL per day as a happy medium.

 

[arking_mark]

I found in my tank (120 gallon display) I could dose a super wide range of vinegar, up to 410 mL per day (which appeared to be too much as the water clouded).

IIRC, I settled on a daily dose of about 100 mL per day as a happy medium.

So my 1ml of vinegar/vodka mix is about 1/100th. I'm so surprised by its effect though. Do you think the vodka supercharged it for me? Or was my tank biom just ripe for carbon dosing?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

So my 1ml of vinegar/vodka mix is about 1/100th. I'm so surprised by its effect though. Do you think the vodka supercharged it for me? Or was my tank biom just ripe for carbon dosing?

I don't know. Slower results are the norm, though.

 

[arking_mark]

I don't know. Slower results are the norm, though.

Now you have me questioning whether the DIY NoPox was the cause of the nutrient drop... LOL

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Now you have me questioning whether the DIY NoPox was the cause of the nutrient drop... LOL

I think that's a reasonable question.

 

[Variant]

Having run zeovit based sps tanks and having had dinos in high phosphate and nritrate conditions, I believe high or low phosphate/notrate is not the core problem to be concerned about.

You shpuld be concerned about having a healthy and diverse population of bacteria and other micro organisms to outcompete the undesireable ones from exploding in population.

This "imbalance" can happen in both low and high phosphate and nitrate conditions but lower levels can be limiting.

When you have low nitrate and phosphates, it is important to focus on proper through put as to maintain the necessary levels of nutrients for your desireable micro organisms.

So while bad things can happen in both low and high nutrients conditions, it is important to go slow to not cause significant imbalances that give undesireables an opportunity to expand rapidly.

Once you dose something like nopox to drop nutrients, back off on dosing to <50% original dose to help you find your maintenance dose that corresponds to the rate of nutrients input (feeding).

 

[Lavey29]

Glad you asked. Since the nutrients and alk started increasing I have been experiencing STN of 2 SPS colonies. I'm very big on stability and was trying to bring my nutrients back in line.

Reducing feedings did not bring down the nutrients and my skimmer is used mostly for pH control. However, it produces over 1000-2000ml of very wet skim a week.

I have an automated 1% daily water change.

I'm not sure I would categorize carbon dosing a chemicals.

Well hopefully your corals will recover and I agree stability is critical. If you feel a slight increase in a couple areas caused your coral issues then I hope your approach corrects the problem.

 

[arking_mark]

Well hopefully your corals will recover and I agree stability is critical. If you feel a slight increase in a couple areas caused your coral issues then I hope your approach corrects the problem.

Unfortunately, it's too late for one of the colonies...and I'm not sure the other will recover.

 

[arking_mark]

Curious if carbon dosing increases skimming. Any evidence of this?

 

[Ancient Mariner]

I’m trying to understand this nitrate/phosphate/carbon dosing thing. I’m an old school reefer when nitrate and phosphate was always bad. My nitrates and phosphates have always been near zero since day 1 when I rebooted my reef 2 years ago . When do you start dosing nitrate and phosphate? Only when a negative event occurs? Or proactively? Same question with carbon dosing.
Seeing people go in circles about this makes my head spin!

 

[Nano sapiens]

I’m trying to understand this nitrate/phosphate/carbon dosing thing. I’m an old school reefer when nitrate and phosphate was always bad. My nitrates and phosphates have always been near zero since day 1 when I rebooted my reef 2 years ago . When do you start dosing nitrate and phosphate? Only when a negative event occurs? Or proactively? Same question with carbon dosing.
Seeing people go in circles about this makes my head spin!

Also 'Old School', so can perhaps help with the context.

Long story short, many reefers have many more fish and feed them (and the corals) way more than we did back in the day. As a result, nitrate and phosphate levels often increase. One way to control nitrate (and phosphate to a lesser extent) is to add a carbon source which stimulates bacterial growth which is then skimmed out of the system.

When to start might be when someone reads that '25 ppm NO3 is too high' for example on the Internet, even thought the system might be doing well (a 'better safe than sorry' approach) or for more experienced hobbyists when indications of high nitrate are noticed (browning of corals, for example).

The caution with this method is that it can be so effective that it drives nitrate levels down too quickly and down to nearly nothing. Doesn't help that it can also take phosphate levels way down too, especially if they were relatively low to begin with.

Personally, I believe it best to try other methods of nitrate control first such as adjusting the fish stocking density, type of foods/amount/frequency, improved husbandry, adding more areas for denitrification, etc.). If the nitrate issue still persists, then a gradual/incremental carbon dosing regimen with frequent testing would be in order.

 

[Ancient Mariner]

Also 'Old School', so can perhaps help with the context.

Long story short, many reefers have many more fish and feed them (and the corals) way more than we did back in the day. As a result, nitrate and phosphate levels often increase. One way to control nitrate (and phosphate to a lesser extent) is to add a carbon source which stimulates bacterial growth which is then skimmed out of the system.

When to start might be when someone reads that '25 ppm NO3 is too high' for example on the Internet, even thought the system might be doing well (a 'better safe than sorry' approach) or for more experienced hobbyists when indications of high nitrate are noticed (browning of corals, for example).

The caution with this method is that it can be so effective that it drives nitrate levels down too quickly and down to nearly nothing. Doesn't help that it can also take phosphate levels way down too, especially if they were relatively low to begin with.

Personally, I believe it best to try other methods of nitrate control first such as adjusting the fish stocking density, type of foods/amount/frequency, improved husbandry, adding more areas for denitrification, etc.). If the nitrate issue still persists, then a gradual/incremental carbon dosing regimen with frequent testing would be in order.

It’s gotten so complicated! “Back in my day…” we just suffered until we broke through to the other side! And now after getting RODI to TDS=0 you add nitrates, phosphates, vodka, vinegar, 10 types of additives, Vibrant, erythro…Ugh! (And I’m not sure if things are better or easier.)