are these Dinos???

[sensei]

system volume: 600g
alk 7.8, mag 1395, cal 400 NO3= 5, PO4= 0.05
I run skimmer, dose vodka since 3 months ago and have a 4 cube ATS installed

I am experiencing problem with zoas.
then are not opening completely since 10 days ago
rocks are covered with this rusty brown color kind of film with a lot of bubbles.

zoas look like this:

all zoas colonies are doing the same thing.
alk, mag, cal, NO3 and PO4 have been very stable in this values

thanks for your help

 

[GoVols]

Without scoping, it looks like dino's.

Either way:
I'd stop carbon dosing ASAP!!

 

[sensei]

how can I confirm Dinos?
how to get a sample for looking in microscope??
should I just suck a sample of water were the bubbles form at the end of light cycle??

 

[dwest]

how can I confirm Dinos?
how to get a sample for looking in microscope??
should I just suck a sample of water were the bubbles form at the end of light cycle??

Suck up a sample of the dino suspect itself. Put a few drops between slides. If you see roundish things that are moving, likely dinos. You can post a video on the big dino forum and usually someone will identify them.

 

[dwest]

Suck up a sample of the dino suspect itself. Put a few drops between slides. If you see roundish things that are moving, likely dinos. You can post a video on the big dino forum and usually someone will identify them.

I agree with govols that you should stop carbon dosing, however your nitrates and phosphate levels suggest that you may not have dinos. Usually we see zero phosphates with dinos. What phosphate test kit are you using? I would make sure to run GAC, replaced weekly, while you suspect dinos. This may help keep your fish and corals alive by removing dino toxins if you have them. Good luck.

 

[sensei]

I agree with govols that you should stop carbon dosing, however your nitrates and phosphate levels suggest that you may not have dinos. Usually we see zero phosphates with dinos. What phosphate test kit are you using? I would make sure to run GAC, replaced weekly, while you suspect dinos. This may help keep your fish and corals alive by removing dino toxins if you have them. Good luck.

for PO4 I am using hanna phosphorus
I am thinking of blowing rocks to stir up thinks and use a UV lamp to treat Dinos in case I have them.
would you see any harm of doing this??

thanks

 

[dwest]

for PO4 I am using hanna phosphorus
I am thinking of blowing rocks to stir up thinks and use a UV lamp to treat Dinos in case I have them.
would you see any harm of doing this??

thanks

I think the UV is a good idea. You’ll want to plumb from display back to display if you can. At least temporarily. I would run about 1 or 2 tank volumes per hour through it. Ideally your UV unit would have at least 1 watts of power for every 3 gallons of water. I would be somewhat careful blowing all the rocks. You may want to blow a few and see how your corals react. Again, be sure to have GAC running. I would try to siphon as much as I could then blow the rocks.

I would also scope them. Your measured phosphate levels are good. You might not have dinos.

I see you have 600 gallons to deal with. Wow! Good luck.

Would love to get salty’s take on this.
@saltyfilmfolks

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

Sounds like your on the right track.
Uv , no carbon dosing , gac.
If you don’t get much response from the coral , try purigen. The coral reaction is quite interesting.

 

[sensei]

I think the UV is a good idea. You’ll want to plumb from display back to display if you can. At least temporarily. I would run about 1 or 2 tank volumes per hour through it. Ideally your UV unit would have at least 1 watts of power for every 3 gallons of water. I would be somewhat careful blowing all the rocks. You may want to blow a few and see how your corals react. Again, be sure to have GAC running. I would try to siphon as much as I could then blow the rocks.

I would also scope them. Your measured phosphate levels are good. You might not have dinos.

I see you have 600 gallons to deal with. Wow! Good luck.

Would love to get salty’s take on this.
@saltyfilmfolks

thanks for your answer.

how much GAC should I use?
how often should I change it?

when you say siphon as much as I can , would it be good to siphon into a filter suck in the sump and water going back in sump or you mean syphon including all water out of tank??
when is the best time to siphon? I ask because at end of light cycle is when I see most bubbles in rocks. I think those are the bubbles I need to siphon correct?

thanks again

 

[sensei]

Sounds like your on the right track.
Uv , no carbon dosing , gac.
If you don’t get much response from the coral , try purigen. The coral reaction is quite interesting.

Why should I reduce carbon dosing or cut if completely?
I ask because it took me several months to acclimate tank and coral to the dose I am doing now. I thought it was a low dose because NO3 = 5 and PO4 = 0.05 are at good levels??

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

Why should I reduce carbon dosing or cut if completely?
I ask because it took me several months to acclimate tank and coral to the dose I am doing now. I thought it was a low dose because NO3 = 5 and PO4 = 0.05 are at good levels??

Becuse if the way these (and coral and cyano etc) metabolize the organic carbon. It’s quite possible you are directly feeding it.

A fwiw,and imo , if you know the dose that’s working now , you can stop completely for a few weeks and see if the organism dies off. Then begin again at the same or a reduced amount and see what happens.

I’d also Reccomen getting some bottles of (for you buckets) good bacteria too. Add to the diversity of the strains and the population.
The pro bioitic Route is also done in the usuall cases of dino /phosphate block as nitrifying bacteria shuts down under the super low nutrients.

 

[dwest]

thanks for your answer.

how much GAC should I use?
how often should I change it?

when you say siphon as much as I can , would it be good to siphon into a filter suck in the sump and water going back in sump or you mean syphon including all water out of tank??
when is the best time to siphon? I ask because at end of light cycle is when I see most bubbles in rocks. I think those are the bubbles I need to siphon correct?

thanks again

You will hear 20 different answers on how to do things when you have dinos, but I can tell you what I do.

I use about 1.5 cups of ROX GAC in my 180 gallon system. I am changing it now once per week. I use it in a BRS reactor. When I finally am dino free I’ll slowly go back to replacing GAC monthly and using passively in my sump. My system was toxic before I hit it harder with GAC.

I use a small diameter tube to remove dinos. This way, I suck up lots of dinos and little water. I use the size just larger than standard airline tubing. I remove water from the tank and just do a water change. Some recycle their water through a small micron filter sock. It didn’t matter in my tank if I did water changes or not, so I just do the easiest. I also believe you can siphon whenever lights are on. My dinos were/are primarily amphidinium, so I also remove sand as I remove water and dinos.

I just keep thinking about your system size. If I were you, I would work hard on the ID first. You can get a $12 microscope. Good luck!

 

[sensei]

You will hear 20 different answers on how to do things when you have dinos, but I can tell you what I do.

I use about 1.5 cups of ROX GAC in my 180 gallon system. I am changing it now once per week. I use it in a BRS reactor. When I finally am dino free I’ll slowly go back to replacing GAC monthly and using passively in my sump. My system was toxic before I hit it harder with GAC.

I use a small diameter tube to remove dinos. This way, I suck up lots of dinos and little water. I use the size just larger than standard airline tubing. I remove water from the tank and just do a water change. Some recycle their water through a small micron filter sock. It didn’t matter in my tank if I did water changes or not, so I just do the easiest. I also believe you can siphon whenever lights are on. My dinos were/are primarily amphidinium, so I also remove sand as I remove water and dinos.

I just keep thinking about your system size. If I were you, I would work hard on the ID first. You can get a $12 microscope. Good luck!

when you say your system was toxic before GAC, toxic for coral or fish also??
I have just experienced zoas not opening completely.

I am not sure how to get the sample.
I just suck with hose were I see the bubles in the rocks?

I have access to a 100x microscope. how do you take the foto? just place the camara were you put your eye?
that is the way people do the videos ??

I will try to take the sample today, but I usually see this bubbles at the end of the light cycle not at the beginning.
so not sure if I just take sample even if I see no bubbles??

thanks

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-11/rhf/
If it’s dinos

 

[sensei]

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-11/rhf/
If it’s dinos

Thanks for the article, I will read later.
I just got a sample. I sucked the brown film in rocks. however it does not feel slimy.

Thanks

 

[dwest]

when you say your system was toxic before GAC, toxic for coral or fish also??
I have just experienced zoas not opening completely.

I am not sure how to get the sample.
I just suck with hose were I see the bubles in the rocks?

I have access to a 100x microscope. how do you take the foto? just place the camara were you put your eye?
that is the way people do the videos ??

I will try to take the sample today, but I usually see this bubbles at the end of the light cycle not at the beginning.
so not sure if I just take sample even if I see no bubbles??

thanks

Dinos killed corals (sps and a couple lps), some fish, and snails in my system.

I’m not sure 100x microscope will work, but worth a try for sure. I have a very cheap microscope but I believe I saw them around 300x. Yes, you can take a photo, but video much better. Just hold phone like it’s your eye. It takes a while, but you’ll eventually get it.

I always had stringy bubbly goop, so I could get a sample any time. Yours may be different.

 

[Anthrax91]

Does it blow off the rocks? If not it's probably not dinos. Looking like what I think I'm dealing with right now. Calothrix

 

[sensei]

Dinos killed corals (sps and a couple lps), some fish, and snails in my system.

I’m not sure 100x microscope will work, but worth a try for sure. I have a very cheap microscope but I believe I saw them around 300x. Yes, you can take a photo, but video much better. Just hold phone like it’s your eye. It takes a while, but you’ll eventually get it.

I always had stringy bubbly goop, so I could get a sample any time. Yours may be different.

WOW...., did not know this animal was so dangerous to dt.. I am more worried now.
I have a lot of fish and 10 are tangs some of them 12 inches big. I need to act fast...…

in my dt it is not manifesting stringly, you can see bubbles but after some time with lights on. it coats rocks and looks rusty brown but detaches easily.
I was able to see the animal in the microscope:

this photo is 10x

this one is 100x

 

[dwest]

WOW...., did not know this animal was so dangerous to dt.. I am more worried now.
I have a lot of fish and 10 are tangs some of them 12 inches big. I need to act fast...…

in my dt it is not manifesting stringly, you can see bubbles but after some time with lights on. it coats rocks and looks rusty brown but detaches easily.
I was able to see the animal in the microscope:

this photo is 10x

this one is 100x

There are thousands of types of dinos. Mine killed some fish, most would not.

Looks like dinos. Are they moving?

I know someone that can ID them. She’s very busy now but maybe she can chime in..
@reeferfoxx

 

[sensei]

Yesterday I siphoned as much as possible in a filter sock I placed on sump; the filter sock was completely blocked at the end and a got mud