Are UV sterilizers worth it?

[schooncw]

Powdered soup? Most people go to great lengths to assure they have good microbes in their tanks to procecess ammonia, nitrate and to keep things like algae, dinoflelates, cyano bacteria at bay. If you listen to Eli at AquaBiomics talk about the test differences between tanks that run UV and those that don't, you might change your thinking.

Do you have a link?

 

[Roscovitch]

Powdered soup? Most people go to great lengths to assure they have good microbes in their tanks to procecess ammonia, nitrate and to keep things like algae, dinoflelates, cyano bacteria at bay. If you listen to Eli at AquaBiomics talk about the test differences between tanks that run UV and those that don't, you might change your thinking.

It’s not about changing my thinking. I’ve listened to thousands over the years. A lot of knowledge I’ve gotten from fully qualified marine biologists have proven to be moot when applied to any kind of closed system. I have a friend here in Scotland who operates one of the biggest Salmon fisheries in Europe applying an old hobby trick to get rid of lice from infested food stock. He has given me advice in the past which were utterly sound. Some worked: some didn’t. The funny thing is that all the things you actually mention above as being enemies inside of hobbyists reef tanks are abundant in the actual ocean. In fact the Zooxanthellae which is critical for the life of photosynthetic symbiosis in corals are themselves dinoflagellates and not algae at all. The fact is we want to have our cake and eat it too. “Ammonia, nitrate, algae, dinoflelates, cyano bacteria” all live in that living soup which surrounds the highest life forms we all admire. Except we don’t want it in our little boxes of water. Hence the term “powdered soup”. Neither you nor I or anyone you care to mention can create that biotope in a box no matter how great a speaker or how many degrees he/she has.
So. Is UV useful in our systems? Let me just say this. If you have a mixed reef and you have just introduced any kind of parasite which in a few days or hours is about to wipe out your entire stock and leave nothing standing but the corals. Do yourself a favour and set up the biggest UV your volume can handle. Two things will happen which will be as important as killing the things which live freely in the sea but we omit at all costs from our little facsimiles of the ocean. 1) Your OPR will hit above 500 which means everything in that tank which can’t resolve oxygen because it’s gills are infested with parasites will almost instantly be able to “breath” and 2) every living free swimming parasite travelling through that black tube will be in serious trouble. In hours, days and weeks and every minute that passes you’ll be unlikely to lose a single swimming friend. As for your corals. They can live on whatever you give them outside of the service of Zooxanthellae. Every year you stay you’ll buy crabs for bubble algae, or a rabbit fish, or you’ll hit it with Vibrant. You’ll quarantine everything and in spite of it one day one of the occupants will flash or run for the power head. A powdered soup biotope will help not one iota. It’s death or a tear down. But don’t take my word for it. That would be hypocritical of me. You have either already experienced it or you’re about to. So is UV essential? Nope! But neither is killing cyano.

 

[1ocean]

yes... I put piped mine in my sump. Placed the pump to the uv in the return chamber of the sump and then have the water go through the uv and return to the return chamber of the sump. Where my ecotech pump pushed the water back to my 300 tank. I did this so that I did not have to buy a bigger pump to send water to the UV and to the tank up 6 feet. Plus by using a smaller pump on the uv I do not have to dial it down as much to get the flow correct through the UV.
Yes I understand the UV pump may recycle some VU'ed water back through the UV before the ecotech sends it to the 300 but I can live with that.. .

 

[reefah]

I've never used UV sterilizers because of the fear that they would be detrimental to my pod population, but lately I'm wondering if the pros out weigh the cons. So, talk me into it. Should I use a UV sterilizer on my next tank?

I 100% would say UV should be part of a standard aquarium build. You will need to dose tho zoo and phythoplankton on a regular basis as UV will remove a %. This also helps reduce the likelihood of having fish diseases though it is not a cure. Not all aquariums are the same and some might need UV and some not. It really just depends what you're looking to do with your current needs for your water params. I just personally believe a UV should be standard -Others will disagree.

 

[schooncw]

Do you have a link?

This?

 

[G Santana]

I was forced to buy one early on into my tank setup as I had an algae bloom that wouldn't go away. I bought an inexpensive pond UV and it eliminated the the bloom in 24 hours. Then I just decided to run it 24/7.
It didn't impact my pods at all. I have never supplemented my pods after they were introduced via a ball of Cheato and my mandarin is fat and happy living off of them 11 months and counting.

 

[Malcontent]

Since UV works by sterilizing and not actually killing anything are we really “removing” things listed above? Filter feeders aren’t going to care if the cells they are consuming are sterile.

Perhaps it could reduce overall volume of each in relation to the tank. That said, things like Phyto and coral foods are routinely dosed anyway.

UV definitely kills. It damages DNA and RNA which halts the cell cycle and puts the cell in repair mode. If the damage is too severe then the cell undergoes apoptosis which is programmed death for single celled organisms.

 

[Roscovitch]

This?

Okay. I just watched the entire 1 hour and 45 minutes of this guy who’s selling DNA sequencing of tank and return pump biofilm. All very interesting stuff. Does at no time whatsoever say whether the most “prolific bacteria in natural sea water” (when killed by UV) is beneficial in a closed system environment. In fact he suggests that the constant use of activated carbon will more than likely produce similar results. I see no benefit whatsoever in even obtaining this data since none of it can tell you anything that is going to be remotely remedial in any system setup. I did however find it quite amusing when the host then reveals that both his well established Systems both run GAC and UV 24/7. Here some food for thought. Maybe not very scientific but get a bucket and fill it full of actual sea water from the ocean. Put it in the car and take it home. Put a heater in it and pump some movement around it. How much of the original biology of that bucket of water with real salt water collected from the ocean will still be alive the next day. Furthermore: how much of that microbial life will have gained or reduced dominance? I’d imagine the contents of that bucket would have changed significantly.

 

[Spieg]

Another internet know it all for the ignore list.

 

[Roscovitch]

This?

Okay. I just watched the entire 1 hour and 45 minutes of this guy who’s selling DNA sequencing of tank and return pump biofilm. All very interesting stuff. Does at no time whatsoever say whether the most “prolific bacteria in natural sea water” (when killed by UV) is beneficial in a closed system environment. In fact he suggests that the constant use of activated carbon will more than likely produce similar results. I see no benefit whatsoever in even obtaining this data since none of it can tell you anything that is going to be remotely remedial in any system setup. I did however find it quite amusing when the host then reveals that both his well established Systems both run GAC and UV 24/7. Here some food for thought. Maybe not very scientific but get a bucket and fill it full of actual sea water from the ocean. Put it in the car and take it home. Put a heater in it and pump some movement around it. How much of the original biology of that bucket of water with real salt water collected from the ocean will still be alive the next day. Furthermore: how much of that microbial life will have gained or reduced dominance? I’d imagine the contents of that bucket would have changed significantly. I

Another internet know it all for the ignore list.

That’s very nice of you. I may point out that it was you who pointed out the “internet” article which I had the decency to watch since your earlier comments suggested it would “change my mind”. It didn’t. As for your “internet know it all” comment? I’ve never stopped learning in this hobby in over 45 years. If there’s something worthwhile looking at I’ll look. If it shows results I’m in. If it’s some guy with a degree trying to convince me to buy something because he’s been looking at microbes under a microscope I’m naturally sceptical. I don’t know if you noticed but he also goes as far to say that “bottled nitrifying bacteria have limited use in a closed system”. Used Dr Timms did you.

 

[schooncw]

I found the video very interesting.

 

[Roscovitch]

I found the video very interesting.

It was interesting. Absolutely. But seriously what if anything would help you and whatever tank setup you had in one iota of anything he had to say. I worked in the BBC Natural History Unit for over 36 years. Dived and filmed on reefs all over the world and in all that time not one minute of it really absolutely relates to help me keep what’s kept in a glass box. With the possible exception of light since my particular expertise in said organisation was as a lighting cameraman. Even that though is entirely different from any domestic tank. Most people would be utterly amazed at just how very little light some of our most recognisable corals actually get in their natural environment.

 

[Miami Reef]

I like UV for water clarity. The tank simply looks HD with a UV!

 

[Roscovitch]

I like UV for water clarity. The tank simply looks HD with a UV!

But what about all your clams and gorgonians. Surely they’re all going to die

 

[Miami Reef]

But what about all your clams and gorgonians. Surely they’re all going to die

That’s simply not true. Tridacna clams gain most of their energy from photosynthesis and the 30% remaining is nitrogen, ammonia, phosphate, and organic compounds from the water column.

 

[Roscovitch]

That’s simply not true. Tridacna clams gain most of their energy from photosynthesis and the 30% remaining is nitrogen, ammonia, phosphate, and organic compounds from the water column.

That was irony bud. Just reacting to the post above yours. All the doom and don’t do crew because there’s this scientific guy who knows stuff and is on YouTube

 

[Miami Reef]

That was irony bud. Just reacting to the post above yours. All the doom and don’t do crew because there’s this scientific guy who knows stuff and is on YouTube

Ah, I see. I didn’t read through the thread, but now I’m caught up!

 

[Reefvision]

I've been doing inch management since the start and I knew 4 months ago I had ich in the tank when I had 3 fishes. A couple of clowns and a blue tang. Fed them well on dry, frozen mysis, shaved clams and they all seemed to get over it. Few months later the tank was stocked up to 5 inhabitants and no signs of ich. I then added my 6th fish a bristle tooth tang and bam the next day my Coral Beauty died with no symptoms other than not being itself the night before, blue tang broke out in white spots clown fishes started flashing. A week later the bristle tooth suddenly died showing no symptoms other than being lethargic the night before. 5 days later the Female clown died with skin falling off people would say it would look like brook and all fish show symptoms of ich, flashing, classic salt grain spots. So off to the LFS and they recommended Reef Revolution Parasite Remover. A reef safe peroxide salt remedy to control ich. 2 days later the other clown died but it could be because it was too little too late. The blue tang recovered but foxface was hiding and eating less and less. 7 days later Fox face stopped eating I knew this was the beginning of the end. I decided I would go the UV route and purchased a V2ectron 600 for my 250L (75 gallon) tank. Surprisingly there is so little information on the internet on UV brands and what kills ich. The model was definately oversized for my tank but still less than half the price of pentair and eheim uvc60 which my LFS was trying to push onto me. I got a separate pump to control the UV flow. Getting home from the LFS the foxface was on its deathbed. Camoflauged and lying on its side barely moving I would have given it another 2 hours before it would have stopped breathing. Hooked up the UV and started it off. Somehow 30 minutes later the foxface was swimming around the tank. 1 day later the foxface is swimming out in the open and started taking more and more foods. Scars are on the body but color has come back to the fish. Don't know if UV can solve ich that fast. For me UV does do wonders for ich management and well worth the price and wished I've done it sooner.

^This is a terrific uv unit I have two in use now for two years now. Be sure to replace Bulbs yearly. I have the 110 watt on my 210gal.love it.

 

[Gundy]

Here is my two cents. UV has been used in Europe forever. All public aquaria use UV. Some ozone too but all use UV. I myself have been in this hobby since 1973 so a couple of years. Back in the day UV units made specifically for the hobby where all but useless. These days you can get the right sized unit for your setup without problem. Make sure you’re putting the most powerful unit your tank volume can handle at the slowest recommended flow rate without over heating your water. So here the thing and without getting into any arguments or being sent off to BRS experimental shop to let you know at a thousand miles per hour just what works because they “test it on their tanks so you don’t have to test it on yours”. UV kills everything that passes through it. It stops cripto from multiplying. Faster flow through it (if powerful enough) will wipe the floor with velvet. Someone already said in this thread that “if you have a full reef tank UV is useless”. I’d say the complete opposite is true. It’s almost essential. No matter how diligent your quarantine: one single drop of water even from the outside of a bag from your LFS can send ANYTHING into your display. You’re only friend will be UV. Just ask AngelicaReef. Or if you need something disease specific from someone not looking to sell you something have a look what the Ozzies do. Those guys who live next to the biggest natural reef on the planet. Happy Reefing.

I agree 100% with your comments. In all the research and experiences I have read about UV from fellow reffers, I know properly sized and even better, oversized UV units with the proper flow can help control ich to manageable numbers. Too many people have a closed mind about UV’s and are not informed and properly educated. I was convinced of the effects of UV mainly because of what so many people were able to accomplish in regards to algae and disease control.

 

[DE FISH]

Yes I do use uv helps with water clarity, bacteria blooms and some strains of dinos I try and run it 12 hours on 12 hours off.