Are water changes over rated?

[goosemans]

Double post by accident

 

[goosemans]

@VintageReefer i saw your other post and makes more sense now, nice tank btw

 

[KrisReef]

I've had a 30 gallon reef tank setup with all soft corals and 5 fish for almost 2 years. I think the best advice I got over this time was to stop doing routine water changes. The first year of my tanks life I was on a weekly water change schedule and was constantly battling fluctuations with readings and corals being happy and then unhappy. Then I stopped doing water changes, and my tank has flourished over the past year! Haven't done one in months and i just took readings. Nitrates are at 0 and the corals and fish couldn't be happier! So are water changes over rated? What do you think?

Update on this tank. How is it today and are the corals still flourishing and have you done a water change?
I am thinking about doing a wc on my reef today and I need some encouragement.

 

[goosemans]

I think the problem is people see others/influencers/experienced hobbyist flaunt they don’t do water changes, so people to try emulate their tanks with very poor results. Most issues I see online seem like they could be avoided with regular water changes and basic husbandry.

 

[Koty]

NO water change since Oct 2021. Do all possible checks (but no ICP) and extensive export as my bioload is high. Movie above is to stay away from being anecdotal. I use Balling three part so with time the tank becomes more and more TM salt tank (started with Fauna Marin)

 

[goosemans]

I have a few things to say.

First, I recently looked back at some evaluations of mine and I seem to have trouble verbalizing what I have in my head.

I had to ask ChatGPT to help me express myself.

This is what I feel like is going on with the no water change method. I will input some quotes of yours that made me arrive to this conclusion.


I quickly scouted R2R for some posts of yours that was interesting to me.




















By not having semi occasional water changes, you need:

Use ICP
Use ozone
Need UV
Need hydrogen peroxide
Can’t dose alkalinity that contains sodium
Can’t use calcium that adds chloride
Afraid of adding anything to your tank because you’re afraid of ruining the balance.
Need to dose nitrates and feed heavy and then carbon dose to add alkalinity instead of directly adding the alk.


It just seems easier to be to do the dang water change than go through all this hassle. Maybe 10-20% a month might be all you need to not have to worry about all of this.


I am writing this not to judge. I have trouble verbalizing my thoughts, and I tried my best. I am writing this with a kind and inquisitive tone.

This needs to be pinned

 

[SomeHappyFish]

I think the problem is people see others/influencers/experienced hobbyist flaunt they don’t do water changes, so people to try emulate their tanks with very poor results. Most issues I see online seem like they could be avoided with regular water changes and basic husbandry.

They flaut without giving the full picture.

Do they dose? No answer
How many fish? No answer
Skimmer ? Some answer but you gotta search their wholr IG page.

And so one.

Most tank are poorly taken care of. Facebook is a plague imo.

 

[VintageReefer]

@VintageReefer i saw your other post and makes more sense now, nice tank btw

You’re welcome and as I’m sure you now know, the tank was rebooted but the water rock sand remained.

 

[saltyMJ]

Update on this tank. How is it today and are the corals still flourishing and have you done a water change?
I am thinking about doing a wc on my reef today and I need some encouragement.

Still haven't done a water change in this tank. The corals are just as happy and most are growing like crazy! Gonna have to start fragging some or re-arranging cause they are running out of room! I continue to dose magnesium, and reef fusion 1 and 2 each week. I don't think I'm gonna do a water change unless I notice a negative change and feel the need to, which could come at some point according to A few.. A lot of these comments are way too over my head and more in depth then I can go. Glad my thread started all of this conversation though! It's nice to see everyone's different methods in this hobby!

Update on this tank. How is it today and are the corals still flourishing and have you done a water change?
I am thinking about doing a wc on my reef today and I need some encouragement.

 

[saltyMJ]

Update on this tank. How is it today and are the corals still flourishing and have you done a water change?
I am thinking about doing a wc on my reef today and I need some encouragement.

 

[KrisReef]

I think the problem is people see others/influencers/experienced hobbyist flaunt they don’t do water changes, so people to try emulate their tanks with very poor results. Most issues I see online seem like they could be avoided with regular water changes and basic husbandry.

Were you talking about me? Thanks. I don’t think I have ever been called an influencer before. I have been called many other things and influencer seems powerful and I crave it secretly.

 

[VintageReefer]

This needs to be pinned

No. Not true for everyone


By not having semi occasional water changes, you need:

Use ICP
- never had one

Use ozone
- never used it

Need UV
- never used it

Need hydrogen peroxide
- I use it as a dip occasionally

Can’t dose alkalinity that contains sodium
- never crossed my mind. I use all for reef and occasionally baking soda. Prior systems used BRS 2 part

Can’t use calcium that adds chloride
- never crossed my mind. I’ve used a variety of products. Currently use Fusion. Prior was Seachem reef complete. In the past I have used BRS 2 part

Afraid of adding anything to your tank because you’re afraid of ruining the balance.
- I add coral as every 2 weeks. I added 6 fish this year. Not afraid of ruining any balance

Need to dose nitrates and feed heavy and then carbon dose to add alkalinity instead of directly adding the alk.
- not sure where any of this is coming from. I don’t dose nitrates. I do feed equal of 3 cubes a day on a 75 but I have anthias and a tang that eat quick and I need my other 4 fish to get food. Also have a lot of coral and I target feed all of them

I am a LPS collector and I would say I have expensive corals. I’m not afraid to put any coral in this tank. I have a number of acans $250-350 a polyp. I have multiple acanthophyllia and Cynarina. Numerous torches including a nearly 7 head banana grail, that I grew out from a single head frag. I’m adding a god torch next week. I have several lobos that are over $1000. I have a plate that’s $1000. I am not attempting to brag or show off anything but my confidence in this tanks stability. I wouldn’t put these things in if I was worried about the tank. I have not kept sps in this tank from the start (was going to be lps only for this build) but added some a few months ago to ensure everything was good, they grew and are doing well, and 2 weeks ago I added some highs end acro frags and they are all doing well and have excellent color and pe.

I will continue, as I have, without doing water changes not out of laziness, but because I don’t have to. I do keep 2 other reefs with other filtration methods and wc are a part of maintenance for 1 of them.

This tank (and 1 other) was setup to not need them, and it has not and continues to not need them. I see no purpose for them if my basics are covered either by my filtration or by me manually replenishing ca/alk/trace

I also do not use a skimmer or any carbon dosing, nor do I have any form of mechanical filtration (no socks, floss, filter roller etc)

The only filtration on this tank is algae scrubber, display live rock that been in my systems for 10-15 years, and the sump is run as a cryptic zone with live rock (10+ years old) + live sponge. I do have 2 bags of chemipure on media tray between baffles, I switch 1 out every 2-3 months.

I am currently maintaining the following parameters:

Naturally -
Nitrate 6.5
Phosphate .4 - .5

Manually controlled
Ca - 400-420
Alk - 8-8.5
Salinity 1.026
Temp 77

I keep 7 fish
Tomini tang
Male lyrerail anthia
Female lyretail anthia
Lemon chromis
<former> coris wrasse
Purple fire fish
Cardinal fish

Any questions please feel free to ask, I do not question this systems stability at all and I would not hesitate to put any coral in, regardless of sensitivity or difficulty. I also do not believe absolutely anyone can be wc free, I think there are several items that contribute to my success that not everyone has.

Edit: also have 20+ goniopora ranging from frags to small colonies.

 

[Seansea]

Just did my Saturday water change and tank clean up. Everybody super happy

 

[KrisReef]

Looks great!

 

[goosemans]

Were you talking about me? Thanks. I don’t think I have ever been called an influencer before. I have been called many other things and influencer seems powerful and I crave it secretly.

Wasn’t directed at you, I don’t even know who you are

 

[goosemans]

No. Not true for everyone


By not having semi occasional water changes, you need:

Use ICP
- never had one

Use ozone
- never used it

Need UV
- never used it

Need hydrogen peroxide
- I use it as a dip occasionally

Can’t dose alkalinity that contains sodium
- never crossed my mind. I use all for reef and occasionally baking soda. Prior systems used BRS 2 part

Can’t use calcium that adds chloride
- never crossed my mind. I’ve used a variety of products. Currently use Fusion. Prior was Seachem reef complete. In the past I have used BRS 2 part

Afraid of adding anything to your tank because you’re afraid of ruining the balance.
- I add coral as every 2 weeks. I added 6 fish this year. Not afraid of ruining any balance

Need to dose nitrates and feed heavy and then carbon dose to add alkalinity instead of directly adding the alk.
- not sure where any of this is coming from. I don’t dose nitrates. I do feed equal of 3 cubes a day on a 75 but I have anthias and a tang that eat quick and I need my other 4 fish to get food. Also have a lot of coral and I target feed all of them

I am a LPS collector and I would say I have expensive corals. I’m not afraid to put any coral in this tank. I have a number of acans $250-350 a polyp. I have multiple acanthophyllia and Cynarina. Numerous torches including a nearly 7 head banana grail, that I grew out from a single head frag. I’m adding a god torch next week. I have several lobos that are over $1000. I have a plate that’s $1000. I am not attempting to brag or show off anything but my confidence in this tanks stability. I wouldn’t put these things in if I was worried about the tank. I have not kept sps in this tank from the start (was going to be lps only for this build) but added some a few months ago to ensure everything was good, they grew and are doing well, and 2 weeks ago I added some highs end acro frags and they are all doing well and have excellent color and pe.

I will continue, as I have, without doing water changes not out of laziness, but because I don’t have to. I do keep 2 other reefs with other filtration methods and wc are a part of maintenance for 1 of them.

This tank (and 1 other) was setup to not need them, and it has not and continues to not need them. I see no purpose for them if my basics are covered either by my filtration or by me manually replenishing ca/alk/trace

I also do not use a skimmer or any carbon dosing, nor do I have any form of mechanical filtration (no socks, floss, filter roller etc)

The only filtration on this tank is algae scrubber, display live rock that been in my systems for 10-15 years, and the sump is run as a cryptic zone with live rock (10+ years old) + live sponge. I do have 2 bags of chemipure on media tray between baffles, I switch 1 out every 2-3 months.

I am currently maintaining the following parameters:

Naturally -
Nitrate 6.5
Phosphate .4 - .5

Manually controlled
Ca - 400-420
Alk - 8-8.5
Salinity 1.026
Temp 77

I keep 7 fish
Tomini tang
Male lyrerail anthia
Female lyretail anthia
Lemon chromis
<former> coris wrasse
Purple fire fish
Cardinal fish

Any questions please feel free to ask, I do not question this systems stability at all and I would not hesitate to put any coral in, regardless of sensitivity or difficulty. I also do not believe absolutely anyone can be wc free, I think there are several items that contribute to my success that not everyone has.

Edit: also have 20+ goniopora ranging from frags to small colonies.

congrats on not changing your water. It should still be pinned

 

[KrisReef]

Wasn’t directed at you, I don’t even know who you are

Breaking my heart

Lots of people posting this thread today
Sorry for the distraction.

 

[Miami Reef]

No. Not true for everyone


By not having semi occasional water changes, you need:

Use ICP
- never had one

Use ozone
- never used it

Need UV
- never used it

Need hydrogen peroxide
- I use it as a dip occasionally

Can’t dose alkalinity that contains sodium
- never crossed my mind. I use all for reef and occasionally baking soda. Prior systems used BRS 2 part

Can’t use calcium that adds chloride
- never crossed my mind. I’ve used a variety of products. Currently use Fusion. Prior was Seachem reef complete. In the past I have used BRS 2 part

Afraid of adding anything to your tank because you’re afraid of ruining the balance.
- I add coral as every 2 weeks. I added 6 fish this year. Not afraid of ruining any balance

Need to dose nitrates and feed heavy and then carbon dose to add alkalinity instead of directly adding the alk.
- not sure where any of this is coming from. I don’t dose nitrates. I do feed equal of 3 cubes a day on a 75 but I have anthias and a tang that eat quick and I need my other 4 fish to get food. Also have a lot of coral and I target feed all of them

I am a LPS collector and I would say I have expensive corals. I’m not afraid to put any coral in this tank. I have a number of acans $250-350 a polyp. I have multiple acanthophyllia and Cynarina. Numerous torches including a nearly 7 head banana grail, that I grew out from a single head frag. I’m adding a god torch next week. I have several lobos that are over $1000. I have a plate that’s $1000. I am not attempting to brag or show off anything but my confidence in this tanks stability. I wouldn’t put these things in if I was worried about the tank. I have not kept sps in this tank from the start (was going to be lps only for this build) but added some a few months ago to ensure everything was good, they grew and are doing well, and 2 weeks ago I added some highs end acro frags and they are all doing well and have excellent color and pe.

I will continue, as I have, without doing water changes not out of laziness, but because I don’t have to. I do keep 2 other reefs with other filtration methods and wc are a part of maintenance for 1 of them.

This tank (and 1 other) was setup to not need them, and it has not and continues to not need them. I see no purpose for them if my basics are covered either by my filtration or by me manually replenishing ca/alk/trace

I also do not use a skimmer or any carbon dosing, nor do I have any form of mechanical filtration (no socks, floss, filter roller etc)

The only filtration on this tank is algae scrubber, display live rock that been in my systems for 10-15 years, and the sump is run as a cryptic zone with live rock (10+ years old) + live sponge. I do have 2 bags of chemipure on media tray between baffles, I switch 1 out every 2-3 months.

I am currently maintaining the following parameters:

Naturally -
Nitrate 6.5
Phosphate .4 - .5

Manually controlled
Ca - 400-420
Alk - 8-8.5
Salinity 1.026
Temp 77

I keep 7 fish
Tomini tang
Male lyrerail anthia
Female lyretail anthia
Lemon chromis
<former> coris wrasse
Purple fire fish
Cardinal fish

Any questions please feel free to ask, I do not question this systems stability at all and I would not hesitate to put any coral in, regardless of sensitivity or difficulty. I also do not believe absolutely anyone can be wc free, I think there are several items that contribute to my success that not everyone has.

Edit: also have 20+ goniopora ranging from frags to small colonies.

Hey buddy. That quoted post was mine. I wrote it because a specific person was concerned about ionic balance, organic accumulation, and trace elements. They wanted to find a work-around without changing water.

I’m sure you can have a fine tank without changing water. I never made the claim you couldn’t have a tank without one.

This specific person was very adamant about not changing water, so I was bringing perspective of all the things he was wanting to do just to not change water.

I never said you can’t have a nice tank without changing water. I think water changes can only help, but that’s not my call to make.

 

[VintageReefer]

Hey buddy. That quoted post was mine. I wrote it because a specific person was concerned about ionic balance, organic accumulation, and trace elements. They wanted to find a work-around without changing water.

I’m sure you can have a fine tank without changing water. I never made the claim you couldn’t have a tank without one.

This specific person was very adamant about not changing water, so I was bringing perspective of all the things he was wanting to do just to not change water.

I never said you can’t have a nice tank without changing water. I think water changes can only help, but that’s not my call to make.

No problem I understand the context and that you dug a bit and found they had multiple “workarounds” and I completely get it, every tank and situation is unique.

I just dont want that presented as the norm or something everyone whose no wc has to deal with and experience.

I’ve kept reefs 20+ years and have been doing no wc for … I don’t know. At least 10 years. Multiple systems. Sps, lps, mixed, 75g, 1.1g pico….Doesn’t matter. I have my equipment and methods figured out and 2 years ago when I rebooted this tank I decided it would be no wc and I have no regrets or issues. Part of why I joined this forum was to share my experience knowledge and proof with others who want to learn. Many are stuck in their ways, that’s cool. Multiple ways to keep a successful tank of course. But people shouldn’t fall for the false belief that their way is the only way for success, nor should they say no wc is a path to failure, or involves “overcomplicating” the hobby with numerous workarounds and additional problems that need solutions.

I spend 6 min a week on tank maintenance for my 75g and that includes cleaning glass. Once every few weeks I check parameters and spend a little extra time on that. But overall, on a week to week basis, my tank is 6 min a week of actual work. Feeding excluded, that’s not work, it’s fun

 

[VintageReefer]

congrats on not changing your water. It should still be pinned

You seem a bit salty to me and others here. What’s the issue?

It should not be pinned because the statements made are in an “absolute” manner and they are not absolute and universal facts. It’s situational based on one persons experience and tank history and doesn’t apply to everyone, but the way it’s worded can be taken out of context without the background behind that post and the owners tank history/setup.

As written, it states if you don’t do semi regular wc, You need then goes onto list 8 things, and actually, you don’t need any of those things. Those are things one person needed but we don’t pin threads based on the history of one persons tank when many others are using the same methods and don’t do those things.