At my wit's end!!!

[BigDog008]

Please excuse the vigor in which I post at here, but I am at my wit's end!

I've been on the Aquaforest plan since September of this year.... running pro-biotic salt, np pro, pro bio s, have the component 1,2,3, along with ABVE..

Inhabitants = 1 pair clownfish, 2in FoxFace, 2in Purple Tang

HORRIBLE RESULTS!!

I'm not getting polyp extension, corals are browning, in fact quite a few of my frags have had tissue loss

Cloudy water (bacteria bloom I imagine?)

My numbers as of this morning are (Salifert test kits,Refractometer):

Temp: 78 deg F
Salinity: 1.024
Alk: 8.8
Ph: 8.29-8.39
Nitrate: 0
Phosphates: 0
Calcium: 490

My hardware is as follows:
93 Gallon Cube
Trigger Systems emerald Cube
Aquamaxx ConeS Q-2 (skimmate is dark green/brown liquid)
1 Avast MR16 Reactor for Siporax
1 Avast MR5 Reactor for Zeo/Carbon/GFO stack
Flow provided by Jebao 12000 Return & 2x Ecotech MP60s
Lighting provided by 2x Radion XR30w Pro G4 on AB+ program

Honestly... I'm getting quite discouraged here.... Please Help!!!

*SOME ADDITIONAL INFO*
I have a CO2 scubber attached to my skimmer to ensure my Ph stays stable
Max intensity of lights is 47%, for a total light cycle of 9 hours, 7 of which are at peak
Multiple water changes have been performed at 10 gallons at a time

 

[mwilk19]

Your tank is too clean. You have 0 No3 and 0 Po4. I'm going through the same thing. I've had 4 corals RTN in the last week. It's not the Aquaforest. I've just started dosing Potassium Nitrate to bring my nitrates back up. As of this morning they're around 4. Our corals require some nutrients to grow and thrive. Thinking used to be that it required zero nitrates and zero phosphates to have a healthy tank. There is a thread on R2R concerning dosing KNo3. It's actually Spectracide stump remover.

 

[BigDog008]

Mike, would you be able to provide the appropriate links? I would love to learn more about this, and any help you can provide would be incredibly appreciated!

Your tank is too clean. You have 0 No3 and 0 Po4. I'm going through the same thing. I've had 4 corals RTN in the last week. It's not the Aquaforest. I've just started dosing Potassium Nitrate to bring my nitrates back up. As of this morning they're around 4. Our corals require some nutrients to grow and thrive. Thinking used to be that it required zero nitrates and zero phosphates to have a healthy tank. There is a thread on R2R concerning dosing KNo3. It's actually Spectracide stump remover.

 

[mwilk19]

Here you go: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/potassium-nitrate-spectracide-stump-remover-dosing-steps.215730/
The one thing I noticed first was my corals were losing their color. No loss of tissue to start but they had lost their vibrant colors. I've only been dosing since Wednesday so it's too early to tell.

 

[tj w]

Your tank is too clean. You have 0 No3 and 0 Po4. I'm going through the same thing. I've had 4 corals RTN in the last week. It's not the Aquaforest. I've just started dosing Potassium Nitrate to bring my nitrates back up. As of this morning they're around 4. Our corals require some nutrients to grow and thrive. Thinking used to be that it required zero nitrates and zero phosphates to have a healthy tank. There is a thread on R2R concerning dosing KNo3. It's actually Spectracide stump remover.

This^^^^^

 

[-Logzor]

I agree with the other posts. In addition, your setup is so complicated...probiotics, GFO, carbon, siporax, etc. Then all the dosing on top of that. I don't think this is AF's fault but you have turned your reef into a hospital ICU.

Try maintaining Alk/Calcium at normal levels with Randy's Two-Part. Run a skimmer and then carbon when you're water isn't clear. Leave your pH alone and turn off your scrubber unless it's going below 7.9. Stop running GFO and only it run a tiny amount of your PO4 goes through the roof. Siporax is probably fine but not necessary. But you have Zeo as well? IMO turn all that crap off and keep your reef simple and watch it flourish.

 

[twilliard]

Sometimes we try too hard to make the tank do what we want.

I agree with the other posts. In addition, your setup is so complicated...probiotics, GFO, carbon, siporax, etc. Then all the dosing on top of that. I don't think this is AF's fault but you have turned your reef into a hospital ICU.

Try maintaining Alk/Calcium at normal levels with Randy's Two-Part. Run a skimmer and then carbon when you're water isn't clear. Leave your pH alone and turn off your scrubber unless it's going below 7.9. Stop running GFO and only it run a tiny amount of your PO4 goes through the roof. Siporax is probably fine but not necessary. But you have Zeo as well? IMO turn all that crap off and keep your reef simple and watch it flourish.

Bingo

 

[sk8elenex92]

Ive had the same issue. Always thought SPS needed 0 phos and nitrates. Then you starve you corals and they slowly start dieing. Unless your feeding a whole bunch of supplements and what not. High Import high Export.. I try to keep it simple. I pulled out GFO,Carbon, And Pellets. Just run Cheato and everything has turned around big time. Nitrate <5 Phos 0.03

 

[G8trBait16]

Also, from what my understanding is, if you are trying to go for the ULNS, with the probiotic salt, AF says to have an alk of 7.2-7.8dKH @Perry or @jsker would know better.

 

[Adamc13o3]

I would cut back on the NP Pro and Pro Bio S and continue to dose ABVE while monitoring PO4 and NO3. If you see it rising go back to dosing NP Pro and Pro Bio S but at half the dose. Your ALK needs to come down to below 8You are getting burnt tips and RTN because of a higher ALK in a ULNS.

 

[jsker]

Hmmmm, are you using the 1+2+3+? And how are you doing? I agree the PO4's and NO3's need to come up. I feed heavy and I am alway try to keep my nutrients down. I would also look at bumping up your lights a bit. Our light are made by the same company but I have the hydra 26 HD's and run them 65%

 

[jsker]

I would cut back on the NP Pro and Pro Bio S and continue to dose ABVE while monitoring PO4 and NO3. If you see it rising go back to dosing NP Pro and Pro Bio S but at half the dose. Your ALK needs to come down to below 8You are getting burnt tips and RTN because of a higher ALK in a ULNS.

Mine has been running over nine for pas two weeks with out issue. I stopped doing alk for the last week and will start doing alk again to or tomorrow to keep my system at 8.3 to 8.5 The alk is fine, just a tad bid high but not out of comtrol. If any thing is too high the 490 Ca needs to come down to around 450 or a bit lower.

 

[hotnickz07]

2 issues i see immediately.
1 .Alk is way high for your system
2. Tank is to clean.
If you are gonna run alk that high, then you are gonna need some nutrients. But it defeats the purpose of the AF probiotic system . So i would lower alk ASAP. As reefers , we strive for that perfect tank and we adopt systems or additives to get there. Then when it doesnt work we blame it. Forgetting that it wasnt that product that didnt work , It was most likely something else. In your case i see alk and nutrients. Fix that and you will see.

 

[BigDog008]

Folks, I apologize if it comes across as if I'm blaming AF and their method... not at all

I completely acknowledge that this is my creation :-(, more so am seeking guidance (and a bit of venting) in regards to fixing this... from what I gather the general consensus is take is way to clean. Would this explain the cloudy water also? Fish seem fine, corals though seem a bit annoyed. Additionally, should I gradually remove my reactor with Zeo/Carbon/GFO? Or can I simply shut it off?

 

[BigDog008]

Hi jsker,

I have been dosing components 1,2,3 previously (100ml of each)... but noticed my Alk was racing through the roof. It hit a peek of 10 last week, and I immediately stopped dosing... parameters have settled down well... I'm honestly just trying to get things dialed in and stable... but seem to have no luck here

Mine has been running over nine for pas two weeks with out issue. I stopped doing alk for the last week and will start doing alk again to or tomorrow to keep my system at 8.3 to 8.5 The alk is fine, just a tad bid high but not out of comtrol. If any thing is too high the 490 Ca needs to come down to around 450 or a bit lower.

 

[mwilk19]

Hi jsker,

I have been dosing components 1,2,3 previously (100ml of each)... but noticed my Alk was racing through the roof. It hit a peek of 10 last week, and I immediately stopped dosing... parameters have settled down well... I'm honestly just trying to get things dialed in and stable... but seem to have no luck here

You said the magic word, STABLE. You said your Alk shot up quickly. That will also cause RTN in your SPS. Any quick jumps in alkalinity is always bad news.

 

[BigDog008]

If my tank is too clean, why would my corals be brownish? I thought brown corals is a sign of high nutrients

 

[Eggyoke]

I blamed AF and stopped using Component 123.

 

[jsker]

Hi jsker,

I have been dosing components 1,2,3 previously (100ml of each)... but noticed my Alk was racing through the roof. It hit a peek of 10 last week, and I immediately stopped dosing... parameters have settled down well... I'm honestly just trying to get things dialed in and stable... but seem to have no luck here

What would you say your water volume is?
I am at 82 gallons water volume, mind you I now mix my own 1+2+3+, way less expensive than the pre made.
I am dosing
1+3+) 10 ml x 4 time a day for a total of 40 ml
2+) 9 ml x 4 time a day for a total of 36 ml took off line for a week and now going back on line today or tomorrow. The alk just shot up for no reason, or it could have been the mixing of the new batch and weighing you correctly. I have made a conversion chart for the 1+2+3+ recipe and also salt mixture with metric and english conversions.

One thing I did also notice when I started using a new bucket of salt, I check the little slip of paper that comes with the test results and the Ca was the same but the Alk and Mg were lower than my last bucket. Just looking at the AF site and this is the general mix parameters for a bucket of Probioatic salt if you are running you majic 3 (Ca,Mg,KH) around those number you are doing good.
Cl – 19000-19500 mg/l
Na – 10500-10600 mg/l
Mg – 1300-1380 mg/l
S – 840-890 mg/l
Ca – 410-440 mg/l
K – 380-400 mg/l
Br – 60-70 mg/l
F – 1,2-1,5 mg/l
Fe – 0,05-0,06 mg/l
Sr – 8-9 mg/l
dKH – 7,2-8,0
pH – 7,8-8,2

I run my numbers based on what @WWC does, they are right down the street
Salinity: 1.025
Temp: 77-78 degrees Fahrenheit
Ca: 450
Alk: 8.6
Mg:1400
Nitrate: 10-20 ppm
Phosphates: .03-.08 ppm
Here is the write up link on @WWC

My last readings 12/17/16
Ca 450
Alk 8.9
Mg 1360
PO4 .02
NO3 12 ppm

 

[Eggyoke]

I'm not sure what AF product caused the headache for me but this is what happened. Before AF I was dosing 63 ml each of BRS 2 part. Switched to AF and dosed about the same. Dosed ABEV. Pro Bio S and NP pro. Algae bloom, then my system stopped consuming ALK and Cal. Still battling algae and going to stop BIO S. I really don't want to stop using the ABEV because I spent so much money on them. I stopped using component 123 and went back to BRS 2 part but only using 12 ml each.