At my wits end...

[Daddio]

My tank has hit a wall and I have been trying everything (probably making things worse). I have tried patience. I have tried additives, phyto, dipping rocks, huge water changes, switching salt, different lighting settings, etc., etc.

I have a 150 tall that has been running in some form or another for almost 20 years now. Fish are great. Inverts are great. Anemones great. Corals, not so much.

Right now I am down to mushrooms, some zoas, palys and oddly enough, a gonipora colony. The Zoas look okay but they are not spreading. Mushrooms are spreading some. My paly colony is even dying off - they are shrunken and kind of brown (how about that!). Any new coral I introduce looks okay for a day or two and then starts melting away (my red sea 200 at work is my nurse tank for the poor coral).

In the past, same setup, my tank was jam packed with everything from montipora the reached the full depth of the tank, huge torches and frogspawn, stylopora the size of a half a soccer ball, etc. I kept to fairly easy corals. I don't kid myself about being able to grow forests of SPS but even "beginner" corals don't make it.

I have been experimenting with introducing different types to see if maybe there is a pest that is killing them off. The only one that has made it past a few weeks is a green nephthea and that does seem particularly happy.

My LFS has even thrown up their hands. We sent out to ICP for analysis (I was hoping it was a heavy metal leach or something I could fix) but it showed nothing that would melt corals (mag was a little low - see attached).

We have playing with my Gen 2 Radions but to no avail. Has anyone else had an issue like this before?
Do I just give up and get a big emperor angel and other fish I was never able to have?
Do I tear down and start over with dead rock?

Any suggestions anyone has would be more than welcome!

Equipment:
Reef octopus Classic 150-EXT
2 MP40s
Vectra return
2 gen-2 Radions
Clearwater Algae Scrubber CW-100
Dose Red Sea Alk & Ca with Vertex Libra
Tunze auto topoff
5-stage RODI unit (water in measuring 0.0 - verified at LFS)
Right now using Red Sea Pro salt

Temp is from 76-78
Keep Salinity at 1.024-5
Test screen grab from ICP attached for other measurements

Fish are: 2 Clowns, Leopard Wrasse, Melanurus Wrasse, Sailfin and Mimic Tangs, Firefish, couple of Bangai Cardinalfish, Watanabe Angel (female), cleaner shrimp, porcelain crab, longspine urchin and a emerald crab (think that is all).

 

[brandon429]

need pics of tank for unspoken details conveyed

 

[ZoWhat]

How old are the LRs?

Porous LR can absorb a bunch of nasty things over 20yrs.

You might have to chisel off the corals you want to keep and start with all new LR

 

[Daddio]

need pics of tank for unspoken details conveyed

Just realized that I haven't taken photos for a while. Will post some tonight. Thanks for the quick reply!

 

[Daddio]

How old are the LRs?

Porous LR can absorb a bunch of nasty things over 20yrs.

You might have to chisel off the corals you want to keep and start with all new LR

Was wondering the same thing - some of the rock is that old.

 

[blasterman]

Two suspects to look at.

Old tanks will establish very mature bacteria beds that out compete anything in the tank. If your nitrate is zero in a tank that old its likely a negative number due to its uptake.

You mention shrooms spreading. Lots of rapidly growing rhodactis are evil when it comes to biological warfare and will make it difficult for other corals to survive. If you have any territorial coral in there that's been established for a very long time and growing steadily this might be the culprit.

I used to have these rare, hyper green palys that grew crazy fast. Once they hit a critical mass of about 50 everything else in the tank would stop growing.

 

[Uncle99]

What’s nitrate?

 

[DeniseAndy]

Green nepthea will keep you from growing any lps if it is settled in and growing. Very defensive coral.

As far as going FOWLR, that is your call. If you find you are not enjoying the aquarium (truly had it), make that change and see if in the future you want to try coral again in a small tank.

 

[AquaBiomics]

I think NO3, PO4, and Alk are needed to diagnose.

 

[Biokabe]

I agree that we need some more information, but one thing that hasn't been asked about is if you've checked your PAR lately. Brand-new, there of course is nothing wrong with your lights, but LEDs gradually decrease in brightness as they age. If you have Gen 2 Radions, at this point those lights are potentially 7-8 years old. With an 8-hour light cycle, you could have close to 25,000 hours on each of those lights by now; with a 10-hour cycle, closer to 30,000 hours. They're rated for 50,000 hours, but just because that's what EcoTech expects you to get, doesn't mean you will. Additionally, it's possible that over that time period, some of your individual diodes could have burned out, robbing you of PAR and potentially leaving holes in your spectrum and overall coverage.

I'm not saying that this is the root cause of everything, but it's worth investigating. I've had LED fixtures that I thought were still good... only to pull them down and find out that a quarter of the diodes had burned out.

 

[Scdell]

Where did you get the ICP test done?
I see a few issues there.
Low iodine
low maganese
it's not showing anything for boron
zinc is at 0
chlorine looks kind of high???

 

[living_tribunal]

My tank has hit a wall and I have been trying everything (probably making things worse). I have tried patience. I have tried additives, phyto, dipping rocks, huge water changes, switching salt, different lighting settings, etc., etc.

I have a 150 tall that has been running in some form or another for almost 20 years now. Fish are great. Inverts are great. Anemones great. Corals, not so much.

Right now I am down to mushrooms, some zoas, palys and oddly enough, a gonipora colony. The Zoas look okay but they are not spreading. Mushrooms are spreading some. My paly colony is even dying off - they are shrunken and kind of brown (how about that!). Any new coral I introduce looks okay for a day or two and then starts melting away (my red sea 200 at work is my nurse tank for the poor coral).

In the past, same setup, my tank was jam packed with everything from montipora the reached the full depth of the tank, huge torches and frogspawn, stylopora the size of a half a soccer ball, etc. I kept to fairly easy corals. I don't kid myself about being able to grow forests of SPS but even "beginner" corals don't make it.

I have been experimenting with introducing different types to see if maybe there is a pest that is killing them off. The only one that has made it past a few weeks is a green nephthea and that does seem particularly happy.

My LFS has even thrown up their hands. We sent out to ICP for analysis (I was hoping it was a heavy metal leach or something I could fix) but it showed nothing that would melt corals (mag was a little low - see attached).

We have playing with my Gen 2 Radions but to no avail. Has anyone else had an issue like this before?
Do I just give up and get a big emperor angel and other fish I was never able to have?
Do I tear down and start over with dead rock?

Any suggestions anyone has would be more than welcome!

Equipment:
Reef octopus Classic 150-EXT
2 MP40s
Vectra return
2 gen-2 Radions
Clearwater Algae Scrubber CW-100
Dose Red Sea Alk & Ca with Vertex Libra
Tunze auto topoff
5-stage RODI unit (water in measuring 0.0 - verified at LFS)
Right now using Red Sea Pro salt

Temp is from 76-78
Keep Salinity at 1.024-5
Test screen grab from ICP attached for other measurements

Fish are: 2 Clowns, Leopard Wrasse, Melanurus Wrasse, Sailfin and Mimic Tangs, Firefish, couple of Bangai Cardinalfish, Watanabe Angel (female), cleaner shrimp, porcelain crab, longspine urchin and a emerald crab (think that is all).

What's your phosphate at?

 

[Daddio]

What’s nitrate?

Nitrate is zero. I have tried letting my tank get "dirtier" also. Phosphates are .03-.06

 

[Daddio]

Green nepthea will keep you from growing any lps if it is settled in and growing. Very defensive coral.

As far as going FOWLR, that is your call. If you find you are not enjoying the aquarium (truly had it), make that change and see if in the future you want to try coral again in a small tank.

I added the nepthea as a test subject to see is fifties would grow. I did not have softies in the tank for several years.

 

[Daddio]

I agree that we need some more information, but one thing that hasn't been asked about is if you've checked your PAR lately. Brand-new, there of course is nothing wrong with your lights, but LEDs gradually decrease in brightness as they age. If you have Gen 2 Radions, at this point those lights are potentially 7-8 years old. With an 8-hour light cycle, you could have close to 25,000 hours on each of those lights by now; with a 10-hour cycle, closer to 30,000 hours. They're rated for 50,000 hours, but just because that's what EcoTech expects you to get, doesn't mean you will. Additionally, it's possible that over that time period, some of your individual diodes could have burned out, robbing you of PAR and potentially leaving holes in your spectrum and overall coverage.

I'm not saying that this is the root cause of everything, but it's worth investigating. I've had LED fixtures that I thought were still good... only to pull them down and find out that a quarter of the diodes had burned out.

Maybe... I did do a Par test and the areas where I was keeping corals are from about 180 -400. The corners of the tank a dark. I will post a picture of my readings. Even if the PAR reading are okay, doesn't mean they are getting the correct type of light.

You think too little light would melt corals? My zoas are not reaching for light - in fact, the palys almost look like they are getting too much. I will add photos.

Thanks for the thoughts!

 

[Daddio]

I think NO3, PO4, and Alk are needed to diagnose.

Zero nitrate, Phosphate generally from .03-.06, Kh is currently around 9. Tried higher (around 11) for a few months to see if that might do something...

 

[Daddio]

Where did you get the ICP test done?
I see a few issues there.
Low iodine
low maganese
it's not showing anything for boron
zinc is at 0
chlorine looks kind of high???

Used this test:
I don't add any trace minerals.
I do change out 10-15 gallons every Sunday - Religiously

 

[Daddio]

Two suspects to look at.

Old tanks will establish very mature bacteria beds that out compete anything in the tank. If your nitrate is zero in a tank that old its likely a negative number due to its uptake.

You mention shrooms spreading. Lots of rapidly growing rhodactis are evil when it comes to biological warfare and will make it difficult for other corals to survive. If you have any territorial coral in there that's been established for a very long time and growing steadily this might be the culprit.

I used to have these rare, hyper green palys that grew crazy fast. Once they hit a critical mass of about 50 everything else in the tank would stop growing.

Interesting.
I did remove a whole bunch of the mushrooms. They are impossible to completely remove.
Also, I did try to let my tank get dirtier. No water changes for a couple months, lighter skimming and my nitrate was still zero.

Hmm.

 

[living_tribunal]

What are you using to test your phosphates? When in doubt, let it run a little higher and see what happens.

 

[Scdell]

Used this test:
I don't add any trace minerals.
I do change out 10-15 gallons every Sunday - Religiously

I take it they don't give you corrective procedures?
You're low on some important elements.
Do a Triton or Ati test.
I'm just got a Triton test back and I had to dose a bunch of things
my tank was in sad shape also. It's turned around in less than three weeks.