At this point do I just start over?

[Creggers]

Hello R2R,

If you check my post history since around mid December I've had a series of crap circumstances lead to a wide scale meltdown of my tank. I have lost all of my coral accept my Torches, Hammer, Frogspawn, a button scoly, and zoanthids.

I have a 75 gallon display with a 20long sump, triton style with a refugium first then a skimmer. I have a carbon reactor that I use only in the case of yellow water and very infrequently run it (changing the carbon when I do so). The tank has been wet since August.

The tank was established with KP Aquatics live rock fresh from the keys shipped in water overnight, I ran the tank without anything in it for about 30 days before adding easy coral like trumpets and birdsnest. The tank ran fine for about three months until I had to remove a fish that caused me to rescape the tank a bit. Since then it's literally been all down hill. Prior to the catching and rehoming of the fish, my SPS was encrusting, I had Acropora shooting off new nubs and I was comfortable enough to pick up some more expensive corals.

I have had some mild ups and downs, but nothing that would lead to a large scale crash based on literally everything that I've read online. My levels never got out of control, the worst thing that happened was a heater breaking and throwing stray current which has since been resolved.

A couple things to note:

• My RODI water is zero TDS, I make all of my saltwater with redsea coral pro salt and mix to 1.026 ppm
• I run a lot of flow in the tank, just a notch below kicking up a sandstorm
• I wear latex gloves whenever putting my hands/arms in the tank
• All tools used in / for tank are cleaned with citric acid after use and are only used in the tank
• I ran a triton test that came back with slightly elevated tin which caused me to do a series of large water changes (Dinos appeared here)
• I have added bottled 'bacteria' to the tank
• I have a diverse and large population of micro/macro fauna (Pods / brittle stars / bristleworms / hermits / snails)

LEVELS (and ranges):

ALK / CA / NO4 tested with Hannah (verified w/ salifert)
MAG: Redsea
SG: Refractometer
PH: Apex Probe
PO4: Hannah and Salifert

ALK: 9.5-10.5 (Normally stays between 10 - 10.5 but it has dipped to 9.5 when I don't catch increased consumption)
CA: 400-450
MAG: 1300-1450
PH: 8.1 - 8.3 swing daily w/ lighting schedule
SG: 1.025-1.026 (crept up to 1.031 or so after an ATO incident but was resolved over 48 hours)
NO4: 2-8
PO4: .03-.04


I honestly feel like I take more care than most of the reefers I know to make sure that the tank is cared for properly, from wearing gloves to making sure that the RODI water is 0TDS. One of my good reef buddies doesn't even have a TDS meter and his tank looks worlds better than mine...

Is it possible that my tank is just doomed to not be successful? I realize that it is 'early' and it's only been up and running for under six months but it seems strange that I went from success to failure so quickly... If I only lost the acropora that'd be one thing but a wide scale meltdown like this feels like there's something I'm missing - do you guys see anything I've left out?

 

[Quietman]

So you're a successful Euphyllia reefer? Nothing wrong with that.

I'm not entirely kidding. Read my build thread...I've had ups and downs and downs and downs and a steady state, then a slow improvement. Gave up on SPS for a while while things settled out and just about ready to start up again soon as weather warms a bit for shipping.

You can start over, no guarantee it'll be better. I thought about it a few times, glad I didn't.

 

[CMMorgan]

Hello R2R,

If you check my post history since around mid December I've had a series of crap circumstances lead to a wide scale meltdown of my tank. I have lost all of my coral accept my Torches, Hammer, Frogspawn, a button scoly, and zoanthids.

I have a 75 gallon display with a 20long sump, triton style with a refugium first then a skimmer. I have a carbon reactor that I use only in the case of yellow water and very infrequently run it (changing the carbon when I do so). The tank has been wet since August.

The tank was established with KP Aquatics live rock fresh from the keys shipped in water overnight, I ran the tank without anything in it for about 30 days before adding easy coral like trumpets and birdsnest. The tank ran fine for about three months until I had to remove a fish that caused me to rescape the tank a bit. Since then it's literally been all down hill. Prior to the catching and rehoming of the fish, my SPS was encrusting, I had Acropora shooting off new nubs and I was comfortable enough to pick up some more expensive corals.

I have had some mild ups and downs, but nothing that would lead to a large scale crash based on literally everything that I've read online. My levels never got out of control, the worst thing that happened was a heater breaking and throwing stray current which has since been resolved.

A couple things to note:

• My RODI water is zero TDS, I make all of my saltwater with redsea coral pro salt and mix to 1.026 ppm
• I run a lot of flow in the tank, just a notch below kicking up a sandstorm
• I wear latex gloves whenever putting my hands/arms in the tank
• All tools used in / for tank are cleaned with citric acid after use and are only used in the tank
• I ran a triton test that came back with slightly elevated tin which caused me to do a series of large water changes (Dinos appeared here)
• I have added bottled 'bacteria' to the tank
• I have a diverse and large population of micro/macro fauna (Pods / brittle stars / bristleworms / hermits / snails)

LEVELS (and ranges):

ALK / CA / NO4 tested with Hannah (verified w/ salifert)
MAG: Redsea
SG: Refractometer
PH: Apex Probe
PO4: Hannah and Salifert

ALK: 9.5-10.5 (Normally stays between 10 - 10.5 but it has dipped to 9.5 when I don't catch increased consumption)
CA: 400-450
MAG: 1300-1450
PH: 8.1 - 8.3 swing daily w/ lighting schedule
SG: 1.025-1.026 (crept up to 1.031 or so after an ATO incident but was resolved over 48 hours)
NO4: 2-8
PO4: .03-.04


I honestly feel like I take more care than most of the reefers I know to make sure that the tank is cared for properly, from wearing gloves to making sure that the RODI water is 0TDS. One of my good reef buddies doesn't even have a TDS meter and his tank looks worlds better than mine...

Is it possible that my tank is just doomed to not be successful? I realize that it is 'early' and it's only been up and running for under six months but it seems strange that I went from success to failure so quickly... If I only lost the acropora that'd be one thing but a wide scale meltdown like this feels like there's something I'm missing - do you guys see anything I've left out?

Ammonia? Nitrite?
Could you have re - cycled? It sounds like you got out of the gate pretty fast, putting stress on a young biofiltration system.
My advise would be that it is a marathon and not a race. Start slower, check your levels, what is your lighting? Maybe start with some softies before getting back to SPS?
Hang in there... we have all crashed and burned. It's how you rise from the ashes that counts.

 

[Rubberfrog]

Your tank is barely six months old and you're having trouble with corals. There is no surprise there. Slow down a bit. Let that tank age another six months before you put any coral in it.

 

[NeonRabbit221B]

I am not sure if I am missing something or everything.... What do you mean by starting over? What have you lost exactly?

Honestly it seems like you went at a very fast pace and hit a speed bump (or several). is there a new issue? Was the loss of coral a very new thing that started?

 

[Garf]

Wild stab, but how are you calibrating your refractometer?

 

[Creggers]

Wild stab, but how are you calibrating your refractometer?

Calibrating with 35ppm calibration solution

Your tank is barely six months old and you're having trouble with corals. There is no surprise there. Slow down a bit. Let that tank age another six months before you put any coral in it.

I guess that's the lesson here - I guess the reason why I'm frustrated is the quick success I see so many others have. Thought if I did everything right and used live rock I'd be able to stock my tank before the year mark which I've seen plenty of folks do.

 

[Uncle99]

A system in 6 months is not stable enough to support what your trying to do.
Sorry

 

[Jon Fishman]

I would rock the tank as-is, only adding things that you know strive in your tank, and give it a year and try to slowly introduce new SPS

 

[Rubberfrog]

Calibrating with 35ppm calibration solution

I guess that's the lesson here - I guess the reason why I'm frustrated is the quick success I see so many others have. Thought if I did everything right and used live rock I'd be able to stock my tank before the year mark which I've seen plenty of folks do.

I think a lot of folks aren't completely truthful about there sub-one-year wonder tanks. I see lots of pics of beautiful coral, and then we never hear from them again, or they stop posting pics. I applaud you for coming in and being honest.

You have gained a ton of knowledge, some of it the hard way, that you can apply to creating an incredible tank.

 

[Quietman]

I guess that's the lesson here - I guess the reason why I'm frustrated is the quick success I see so many others have. Thought if I did everything right and used live rock I'd be able to stock my tank before the year mark which I've seen plenty of folks do.

We all do it. We all make plans on how perfect we can set it up first time. Most of us read all the posts, view all the BRS videos and make sure we do everything right. Then we get smacked in the face by the crushing reality of the absurdity of trying to keep a box of the ocean in our living rooms. I think I read somewhere that something like well over half of reefers quit in the first year. Those guys that fail and leave don't post videos on here or make videos for YouTube very often. So the information is heavily weighted on successful tanks (and rightfully so).

BTW - I really appreciate when experienced reefers share their failures. It's a reality check.

Also remember a lot of the "how easy this can be if you do X" is advertising. No one's going to spend $5K on a hobby with a 60% first year failure rate. Ok...so I did, and probably most of us. But hey, if it were easy, everyone would be doing it.

I'm a success because I'm still here after a year. I have living corals and fish in my tank and I'm still enjoying the ride. But mostly I'm successful because when my grandkids come over, they can't stop staring at my box of ocean. They think it's a great tank and haven't said to me once "Grandpa, how come you can't grow acropora like the guy on YouTube?"

You can't fail if you don't give up!

Anyway...hang in there.

 

[jorwill]

Hello R2R,

If you check my post history since around mid December I've had a series of crap circumstances lead to a wide scale meltdown of my tank. I have lost all of my coral accept my Torches, Hammer, Frogspawn, a button scoly, and zoanthids.

I have a 75 gallon display with a 20long sump, triton style with a refugium first then a skimmer. I have a carbon reactor that I use only in the case of yellow water and very infrequently run it (changing the carbon when I do so). The tank has been wet since August.

The tank was established with KP Aquatics live rock fresh from the keys shipped in water overnight, I ran the tank without anything in it for about 30 days before adding easy coral like trumpets and birdsnest. The tank ran fine for about three months until I had to remove a fish that caused me to rescape the tank a bit. Since then it's literally been all down hill. Prior to the catching and rehoming of the fish, my SPS was encrusting, I had Acropora shooting off new nubs and I was comfortable enough to pick up some more expensive corals.

I have had some mild ups and downs, but nothing that would lead to a large scale crash based on literally everything that I've read online. My levels never got out of control, the worst thing that happened was a heater breaking and throwing stray current which has since been resolved.

A couple things to note:

• My RODI water is zero TDS, I make all of my saltwater with redsea coral pro salt and mix to 1.026 ppm
• I run a lot of flow in the tank, just a notch below kicking up a sandstorm
• I wear latex gloves whenever putting my hands/arms in the tank
• All tools used in / for tank are cleaned with citric acid after use and are only used in the tank
• I ran a triton test that came back with slightly elevated tin which caused me to do a series of large water changes (Dinos appeared here)
• I have added bottled 'bacteria' to the tank
• I have a diverse and large population of micro/macro fauna (Pods / brittle stars / bristleworms / hermits / snails)

LEVELS (and ranges):

ALK / CA / NO4 tested with Hannah (verified w/ salifert)
MAG: Redsea
SG: Refractometer
PH: Apex Probe
PO4: Hannah and Salifert

ALK: 9.5-10.5 (Normally stays between 10 - 10.5 but it has dipped to 9.5 when I don't catch increased consumption)
CA: 400-450
MAG: 1300-1450
PH: 8.1 - 8.3 swing daily w/ lighting schedule
SG: 1.025-1.026 (crept up to 1.031 or so after an ATO incident but was resolved over 48 hours)
NO4: 2-8
PO4: .03-.04


I honestly feel like I take more care than most of the reefers I know to make sure that the tank is cared for properly, from wearing gloves to making sure that the RODI water is 0TDS. One of my good reef buddies doesn't even have a TDS meter and his tank looks worlds better than mine...

Is it possible that my tank is just doomed to not be successful? I realize that it is 'early' and it's only been up and running for under six months but it seems strange that I went from success to failure so quickly... If I only lost the acropora that'd be one thing but a wide scale meltdown like this feels like there's something I'm missing - do you guys see anything I've left out?

Couple things, you use a 20g sump yet you had an ATO incident that increased your SG? That is not possible unless you put saltwater in your ATO, if so then nvm on this one. But this would cause extreme disaster for a lot of corals at 1.031.

Next thing I would stop using a refractometer, they suck and if you don't religiously validate them to zero your salinity may always be bouncing, this can cause alk swings even 1dkh can cause major problems if it is in a short amount of time.

Are you able to lower your alk? anything above a 9 unless you are experienced I have heard is not a good idea to target. What salt are you using?

As another have mentioned what is your ammonia, nitrite and nitrate at? It is not uncommon for a young tank to have a few recycles happen. It did in mine at 4 months old(I don't stir my sandbed anymore).

 

[jorwill]

We all do it. We all make plans on how perfect we can set it up first time. Most of us read all the posts, view all the BRS videos and make sure we do everything right. Then we get smacked in the face by the crushing reality of the absurdity of trying to keep a box of the ocean in our living rooms. I think I read somewhere that something like well over half of reefers quit in the first year. Those guys that fail and leave don't post videos on here or make videos for YouTube very often. So the information is heavily weighted on successful tanks (and rightfully so).

BTW - I really appreciate when experienced reefers share their failures. It's a reality check.

Also remember a lot of the "how easy this can be if you do X" is advertising. No one's going to spend $5K on a hobby with a 60% first year failure rate. Ok...so I did, and probably most of us. But hey, if it were easy, everyone would be doing it.

I'm a success because I'm still here after a year. I have living corals and fish in my tank and I'm still enjoying the ride. But mostly I'm successful because when my grandkids come over, they can't stop staring at my box of ocean. They think it's a great tank and haven't said to me once "Grandpa, how come you can't grow acropora like the guy on YouTube?"

You can't fail if you don't give up!

Anyway...hang in there.

Biggest thing I learned was slow the F down. It's cool to see stuff go in the tank, sucks even more when they come out for the wrong reasons.

 

[Kongar]

Not that I'm an expert by any means - but I'm approaching 1year on my tank, and I think I can offer some words of encouragement. My tank looked AWESOME around 3-4 months. Everything super happy. I didn't understand what was coming next. I didn't understand what maturity meant, and I didn't understand how "slow" people really meant when they say to take it slow. Then for really no reason that I can discern (MAYBE phosphates bottomed out through overuse of GFO - MAYBE), my tank took a wicked nose dive - all kinds of random blooms and ugly stage stuff. Only after some wicked battles, losing coral, and everything looking sick and receding, did my tank start to look and do better around the 9 month mark.

Stick with it - I was ready to throw in the towel. Looking at my tank made me turn away in disgust. Now I'm back to "my tank is cool - I like this." I think you're just in the worst of it right now, it'll get better if you have persistence and keep doing the right things.

 

[jorwill]

Not that I'm an expert by any means - but I'm approaching 1year on my tank, and I think I can offer some words of encouragement. My tank looked AWESOME around 3-4 months. Everything super happy. I didn't understand what was coming next. I didn't understand what maturity meant, and I didn't understand how "slow" people really meant when they say to take it slow. Then for really no reason that I can discern (MAYBE phosphates bottomed out through overuse of GFO - MAYBE), my tank took a wicked nose dive - all kinds of random blooms and ugly stage stuff. Only after some wicked battles, losing coral, and everything looking sick and receding, did my tank start to look and do better around the 9 month mark.

Stick with it - I was ready to throw in the towel. Looking at my tank made me turn away in disgust. Now I'm back to "my tank is cool - I like this." I think you're just in the worst of it right now, it'll get better if you have persistence and keep doing the right things.

Been there with you! I honestly accept the downfalls I have had because without them I wouldn't have learned what I know now. Absolutely love the hobby and the research it takes to succeed.

 

[Nano sapiens]

No two reef aquariums are, or ever will be, the same. John McDoe might be blessed by the reefing gods and have everything go as he envisioned from the start, but for every one of him there might be 50 that find the going is not so easy and still a bunch of others that the going is excruciatingly tough.

We are dealing with natural processes occurring within an artificial man-made environment. We know enough to provide for most of the reef animals' needs, but not everything that goes on in a reef system. The effects of destabilizing events (of which there are so many possibilities) may not even be apparent until a few weeks have passed and trying to pin down the exact cause(s) can daunting. That's part of the challenge!

So slow down, have a cup and remember that although the forums/videos/etc. sometimes make it seem like this is a speed contest to succeed, the hobby has been, and always should be, about the personal journey and personal satisfaction of 'getting it right' (whatever that means to you and whenever that might happen).

And always 'Expect the unexpected'!

...and to answer your Subject question, I have found over the many years of reef keeping that it's almost always preferable to work with what you have, rather than start all over again each time (one learns a lot more that way).

 

[Surfandturf]

How often do you do water changes? When you do a water change, what percentage of water do you take out and replace with saltwater? I'm sorry, but I didn't see if you dose or not. Do you dose? If so, what and what brand? I agree with the majority on here that a tank less than 1 year old should not have acropora in it. You also need to ensure that you are not adding too much at once, your immature biological filtration cannot handle this. I wish you all the success in the world. Keep on keepin on and just slow down a bit to enjoy the beauty of the ecosystem you have already created.

 

[reddogf5]

Couple things, you use a 20g sump yet you had an ATO incident that increased your SG? That is not possible unless you put saltwater in your ATO, if so then nvm on this one. But this would cause extreme disaster for a lot of corals at 1.031.

Next thing I would stop using a refractometer, they suck and if you don't religiously validate them to zero your salinity may always be bouncing, this can cause alk swings even 1dkh can cause major problems if it is in a short amount of time.

Are you able to lower your alk? anything above a 9 unless you are experienced I have heard is not a good idea to target. What salt are you using?

As another have mentioned what is your ammonia, nitrite and nitrate at? It is not uncommon for a young tank to have a few recycles happen. It did in mine at 4 months old(I don't stir my sandbed anymore).

I disagree 100% on the refractometer. Mine is close to ten years old, is linear, and rarely needs calibration. what would you propose is more accurate and stable than a refractometer?

 

[bitwise]

There’s some good info here. I think another thing that’s lost is that some folks that show “success” in the early days of a tank actually have years of experience. I’ve spent 5 years learning from mistakes and have quite a bit of confidence now in *some areas* of the hobby. It’s like gardening, you have to work at it to develop a consistent green thumb.

One of the things I wished I did earlier was find a local mentor. I’m at the point now where I probably don’t need one unless I tried something entirely new, but I’m looking for an opportunity to teach others, because it was tough going for me sometimes.

 

[reddogf5]

Also, don't start over. If you still enjoy the hobby, continue with your tank and try to figure out what went wrong. Starting over just tosses everything you've already done in the garbage.