At What pH is Kalk No Longer Fully Saturated

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12.4? i.e., I have a pH probe in my kalk reactor. When should I add more kalk to maintain a constant concentration? At 11.9, there is still a significant slurry at the bottom. I am dosing 2L/day kalk solution and make up the rest of the Ca/Alk using 2part. Previously, without the probe, I would assume as long as there is slurry at the bottom, I was still good.

Thanks
 
Reactors often yield less than saturated limewater, often to the surprise of users.

The best way to gauge limewater potency is by conductivity, but if you want to use pH (which is a bit crude), here's what to do:

Measure the pH of truly saturated limewater. Say, 2 teaspoons in a cup of RO/DI. Note the value.

Then measure the pH of the limewater you are interested in with the same probe right away. A difference of 0.3 pH units is a bit more than a factor of 2 in potency, so you'd want the pH to be quite close to the standard.
 
If you are really dropping from pH 12.4 to pH 11.9, you've lost most of the potency. Assuming the 11.4 is saturated (the actual value is a bit higher), then you've lost about 70%.
 
Thanks for the info and clarification.

My setup as follows: I dose ~2L/day via Avast Kalkreactor. pH probe calibrated > 6 months ago.
pH 11.9, --> Add 4 heaping Tbsp. pH --> 12.5 (Day 0)
pH 12.4, Day 5
pH 12.3, Day 16
pH 12.2, Day 18 (rapid pH drop begins...)
pH 11.8, Day 24 (Significant slurry still at bottom of reactor. > 1")

Interesting that I shouldn't trust the visual observation of the reactor to determine the potency of the limewater and just top off every 2 weeks. Data is very similar for 2 cycles of Kalk refill.
 
Thanks for the info and clarification.

My setup as follows: I dose ~2L/day via Avast Kalkreactor. pH probe calibrated > 6 months ago.
pH 11.9, --> Add 4 heaping Tbsp. pH --> 12.5 (Day 0)
pH 12.4, Day 5
pH 12.3, Day 16
pH 12.2, Day 18 (rapid pH drop begins...)
pH 11.8, Day 24 (Significant slurry still at bottom of reactor. > 1")


Interesting that I shouldn't trust the visual observation of the reactor to determine the potency of the limewater and just top off every 2 weeks. Data is very similar for 2 cycles of Kalk refill.

I'd be wary of trusting calibration at the usual 7 and 10 for reading above 12. Hence the method Jim and I refer to.

The solids that remain may be impurities such as magnesium hydroxide or calcium carbonate, or those insoluble things may crust over solid particles of calcium hydroxide, preventing dissolution..
 
Thanks for the info and clarification.

My setup as follows: I dose ~2L/day via Avast Kalkreactor. pH probe calibrated > 6 months ago.
pH 11.9, --> Add 4 heaping Tbsp. pH --> 12.5 (Day 0)
pH 12.4, Day 5
pH 12.3, Day 16
pH 12.2, Day 18 (rapid pH drop begins...)
pH 11.8, Day 24 (Significant slurry still at bottom of reactor. > 1")

Interesting that I shouldn't trust the visual observation of the reactor to determine the potency of the limewater and just top off every 2 weeks. Data is very similar for 2 cycles of Kalk refill.

I see I am a few months late to the party but I wanted to add similar observations using the same kalk stirrer. My measurements are based on a conductivity probe instead of a pH probe.:

I add 3 liters of kalk topoff daily using a 50 ml/day BRS Top Off Doser - additions are spread out to 125 ml per hour, for 24 dosings per day.

1. On Day 1, I add 1/2 cup of kalk powder to the reactor and Cond reads about 5.3 (I can get a good calibration at 53.0, but I find the readings are not very good at these lower ranges). I have measured calcium of the clear water using a Seachem Calcium test kit and I usually get a reading around the 600-700 ppm range...below saturation but good enough for what I need.

2. On Day 2, Conductivity has dropped to +/- 3.0. Seachem Calcium usually indicates 500-600 ppm range.

3. On Day 3, Conductivity is around 2.5 and calcium is testing around 400-500 ppm.

4. On Day 4, Conductivity drops to 0.0; I find and it will not make readings below 1.9. At this point calcium tests around 400-500 ppm.

My personal observations is the Avast Kalkstirrer simply does not disturb the kalk slurry sufficiently to promote good mixing at the bottom of the chamber. Secondly, the fresh RO discharge port is too high in the chamber to promote redistribution of the calc slurry. I used to run an AquaMedic kalk stirrer and I am thinking about going back to that design. While it does not have a probe port (one could be modded in I suppose), I recall visually seeing the kalk slurry rise in that reactor because the RO injection point was near the bottom. The stirrer was more robust in the AquaMedic unit so it better promoted a saturated solution.

I am also contemplating going to a pump based reactor. With an Apex controller, I can easily put in the fail safes to prevent dosing over saturated kalkwater to the tank.

My final comment here is that I had a hard time searching for kalkwasser saturation issues with kalk stirrers and I find a lot of people just state kalk reactors as a waste of money and to just make the saturated solution and put it in your ATO. There is a really good reason I do not do this. I do not believe kalk should be added to the tank based on your evaporation alone. So if I add my 3 liters of kalk and I still need more water because the evaporation is high that day, I want to top off any excess with straight RO/DI. This is the only way I can monitor and control my daily Alk/Ca additives. So this approach would require two ATO containers and I do not have space for that in my stand...although I suppose I could replace my 10 gallon ATO with two 5 gallon units. Perhaps that is my Plan C.
 
Thanks for the results. That's exactly my concern with saturation from a reactor, and most folks just make the (often mistaken) assumption it is saturated. Sturated limewater varies a bit with temp, but it is around 10.3 mS/cm at 25 deg C. 3 mS/cm is well below saturation.

I do not believe kalk should be added to the tank based on your evaporation alone. So if I add my 3 liters of kalk and I still need more water because the evaporation is high that day, I want to top off any excess with straight RO/DI. This is the only way I can monitor and control my daily Alk/Ca additives. So this approach would require two ATO containers and I do not have space for that in my stand...although I suppose I could replace my 10 gallon ATO with two 5 gallon units. Perhaps that is my Plan C.

I don't disagree with that idea, but one solution can still be to dose from a settled reservoir of known potency using a dosing pump delivering somewhat under the daily evaporation rate, and let the ATO make up the variable difference. :)
 
Thanks for the results. That's exactly my concern with saturation from a reactor, and most folks just make the (often mistaken) assumption it is saturated. Sturated limewater varies a bit with temp, but it is around 10.3 mS/cm at 25 deg C. 3 mS/cm is well below saturation.



I don't disagree with that idea, but one solution can still be to dose from a settled reservoir of known potency using a dosing pump delivering somewhat under the daily evaporation rate, and let the ATO make up the variable difference. :)


This is exactly how I have used kalk in all my systems.
 
Thanks for the results. That's exactly my concern with saturation from a reactor, and most folks just make the (often mistaken) assumption it is saturated. Sturated limewater varies a bit with temp, but it is around 10.3 mS/cm at 25 deg C. 3 mS/cm is well below saturation.



I don't disagree with that idea, but one solution can still be to dose from a settled reservoir of known potency using a dosing pump delivering somewhat under the daily evaporation rate, and let the ATO make up the variable difference. :)

Like I said, that will have to be plan C. My 10 gallon ATO is built into my cabinet and has to be removed from the top, which requires a lot of other removals (pre-mixed salt water storage, fridge for foods, storage for test kits and supplements, etc...its near the bottom). Replacing it with two 5 gallon units would be quite a bit of work so I could maintain separate kalk and separate RO/DI. I would also have to fill it via pump and hose because removal again would be difficult. I ordered the plumbing parts to modify the stirrer. Even replacing the power head annually is more attractive than removing and servicing the storage containers. Things to keep in mind for the next build...always another build just around the corner!
 
I use a single ATO reservoir. For kalk, I have a dosing pump that draws from the ATO reservoir and doses a fixed 2L/day dosed hourly. This is just slightly below my daily evap rate.

For topoff, I have an aqualifter pump drawing from the same ATO reservoir. This is controlled by an Apex. If the float switch is low, and between specific times of day, the aqualifter tops off the tank. I only have max 1 mins per cycle to topoff the tank to prevent overfilling incase of failed float switch, etc.

I also have a high level float switch that normally stays dry. If this switch is tripped, my skimmer and ATO shutoff. Dosing will remain as is.

I also have two additional dosing pumps (Ca/Alk) that start dosing 2hrs before lights to 2hrs before lights off.
 
Thanks for the results. That's exactly my concern with saturation from a reactor, and most folks just make the (often mistaken) assumption it is saturated. Sturated limewater varies a bit with temp, but it is around 10.3 mS/cm at 25 deg C. 3 mS/cm is well below saturation.



I don't disagree with that idea, but one solution can still be to dose from a settled reservoir of known potency using a dosing pump delivering somewhat under the daily evaporation rate, and let the ATO make up the variable difference. :)
Randy, how would you dose Kalk today? Trying to figure out the best way. I had it dosing with my GHL pump reverse light cycle and also tried it 24/7.

Now I’m thinking to try a Kalk reactor. What do you suggest?
 
Randy, how would you dose Kalk today? Trying to figure out the best way. I had it dosing with my GHL pump reverse light cycle and also tried it 24/7.

Now I’m thinking to try a Kalk reactor. What do you suggest?

A slow pump from a settled reservoir is, in my opinion, the best way. Reactors are OK if space is limited, but have no advantages (except space) and some drawbacks over a settled reservoir (harder to control potency, less settling of impurities, and no chance to boost potency with vinegar, if desired).
 
A slow pump from a settled reservoir is, in my opinion, the best way. Reactors are OK if space is limited, but have no advantages (except space) and some drawbacks over a settled reservoir (harder to control potency, less settling of impurities, and no chance to boost potency with vinegar, if desired).
Thanks for the quick reply Randy!

I was having good luck like that dosing 150x a day with my GHL. Maybe I should put it on a Kamoer and dose it 24/7 like my calcium reactor with slow flow rate. :-)
 
For long term Kalk dosing, this item is good to have. I try to be over 80% saturation or ~8.5 mS/cm I think as good enough. Some plugging and maintenance can occur in dosing kalk directly through a peristaltic pump.



I have gone back and forth with reactor and small bucket. It is more a preference if you understand limits of each. Atleast my "reactors" are consistently mediocre in saturation level so can control a system. I find they are less messy as whole thing can be cleaned in 10 mins or 2 mins if just replacing slaked lime,

I do think it is worth the effort long term for stony corals and perhaps out of favor these days.
 
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For long term Kalk dosing, this item is good to have. I try to be over 80% saturation or ~8.5 mS/cm I think as good enough. Some plugging and maintenance can occur in dosing kalk directly through a peristaltic pump.



I have gone back and forth with reactor and small bucket. It is more a preference if you understand limits of each. Atleast my "reactors" are consistently mediocre in saturation level so can control a system. I find they are less messy as whole thing can be cleaned in 10 mins or 2 mins if just replacing slaked lime,

I do think it is worth the effort long term for stony corals and perhaps out of favor these days.
Looks like that could be a good buy. Hanna seems to be pretty accurate for me on other testers.
 
Only if you use Kalk long term. I checked it weekly until it is very predicable. Measurement is in midrange of scale so might help some with accuracy.

I personally would not bother with pH for this task
 
My Kalk seemed to decline in potency after about 10 days.

Anybody have any recent good numbers on declining potency with conductivity or pH?
 
My Kalk seemed to decline in potency after about 10 days.

Anybody have any recent good numbers on declining potency with conductivity or pH?

In a closed container it does not decline (IME). In an open container it can, especially if the crust that forms on the surface is broken up (IME). The article below shows a number of experiments. Here are two of them:

The Degradation of Limewater in Air - Reefkeeping.com

Figure 2. The conductivity of the limewater in my dosing reservoir as a function of time.

1634040180301.png


Figure 6. Conductivity as a function of time for initially saturated limewater that has no excess lime solids present. The liquid was kept in an open container and the surface crust that forms was broken by the conductivity probe where indicated. The data in red is reproduced from Figure 5 (where there is excess lime and no breakage of the crust). Note that the conductivity scale is blown up considerably (compared to all other figures) to see the drop.

1634040267413.png
 

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