GrizFyrFyter
Well-Known Member
Also. Big water changes are more effective than several small ones. Just make sure incoming water parameters (temp, alk, salinity, ect) are close to current ones so you don't shock the system.
At wit's end
- Thread starter Mark C
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Mark C
Community Member
Well, here's my update.
Started dosing vodka February 15th with the recommended dosages from my research.
At this time, my nitrate levels are undetectable using the Sailfert Nitrate test kit.
All other water parameters are excellent and I monitor than frequently.
So as of now, I still have an out of control amount of hair algae growing constantly in my mixed reef tank.
I only feed once a day, alternating between pellets, flake, and frozen brine shrimp with spirulina.
Fish are doing excellent; most of the corals are doing well, except brain corals, and trumpets.
I don't have a problem with TDS either.
My only conclusion is I must have a phosphate issue, but even they aren't detectable with the Sailfert test kits.
I use LED's and they are on 10 hours per day on a timer.
At this point, I really wish I had gone with my first instincts and done a fish only tank.
But at this point, I'm too deep into my investment to turn back now and I need to resolve this issue eventually.
Thanks again for any advise!
By the way, I was thinking about trying Phophate Rx to see what may happen; any reviews?
Started dosing vodka February 15th with the recommended dosages from my research.
At this time, my nitrate levels are undetectable using the Sailfert Nitrate test kit.
All other water parameters are excellent and I monitor than frequently.
So as of now, I still have an out of control amount of hair algae growing constantly in my mixed reef tank.
I only feed once a day, alternating between pellets, flake, and frozen brine shrimp with spirulina.
Fish are doing excellent; most of the corals are doing well, except brain corals, and trumpets.
I don't have a problem with TDS either.
My only conclusion is I must have a phosphate issue, but even they aren't detectable with the Sailfert test kits.
I use LED's and they are on 10 hours per day on a timer.
At this point, I really wish I had gone with my first instincts and done a fish only tank.
But at this point, I'm too deep into my investment to turn back now and I need to resolve this issue eventually.
Thanks again for any advise!
By the way, I was thinking about trying Phophate Rx to see what may happen; any reviews?
SantaMonica
Valuable Member
Short answer: It does sound like P coming out of the rocks; if so, the algae will get thicker before it starts going away. Long answer:
Nutrient Export
What do all algae (and cyano too) need to survive? Nutrients. What are nutrients? Ammonia/ammonium, nitrite, nitrate, phosphate and urea are the major ones. Which ones cause most of the algae in your tank? These same ones. Why can't you just remove these nutrients and eliminate all the algae in your tank? Because these nutrients are the result of the animals you keep.
So how do your animals "make" these nutrients? Well a large part the nutrients come from pee (urea). Pee is very high in urea and ammonia, and these are a favorite food of algae and some bacteria. This is why your glass will always need cleaning; because the pee hits the glass before anything else, and algae on the glass consume the ammonia and urea immediately (using photosynthesis) and grow more. In the ocean and lakes, phytoplankton consume the ammonia and urea in open water, and seaweed consume it in shallow areas, but in a tank you don't have enough space or water volume for this, and, your other filters or animals often remove or kill the phytoplankton or seaweed anyway. So, the nutrients stay in your tank.
Then the ammonia/ammonium hits your rocks, and the periphyton on them consumes more ammonia and urea. Periphyton is both algae and animals, and is the reason your rocks change color after a few weeks. Then the ammonia goes inside the rock, or hits your sand, and bacteria there convert it into nitrite and nitrate. However, the nutrients are still in your tank.
Also let's not forget phosphate, which comes from solid organic food particles. When these particles are eaten by microbes and clean up crew, the organic phosphorus in them is converted into phosphate. However, the nutrients are still in your tank.
So whenever you have algae "problems", you simply have not exported enough nutrients compared to how much you have been feeding (note: live rock can absorb phosphate for up to a year, making it seem like there was never a problem. Then, there is a problem).
So just increase your nutrient exports. You could also reduce feeding, and this has the same effect, but it's certainly not fun when you want to feed your animals
Nutrient Export
What do all algae (and cyano too) need to survive? Nutrients. What are nutrients? Ammonia/ammonium, nitrite, nitrate, phosphate and urea are the major ones. Which ones cause most of the algae in your tank? These same ones. Why can't you just remove these nutrients and eliminate all the algae in your tank? Because these nutrients are the result of the animals you keep.
So how do your animals "make" these nutrients? Well a large part the nutrients come from pee (urea). Pee is very high in urea and ammonia, and these are a favorite food of algae and some bacteria. This is why your glass will always need cleaning; because the pee hits the glass before anything else, and algae on the glass consume the ammonia and urea immediately (using photosynthesis) and grow more. In the ocean and lakes, phytoplankton consume the ammonia and urea in open water, and seaweed consume it in shallow areas, but in a tank you don't have enough space or water volume for this, and, your other filters or animals often remove or kill the phytoplankton or seaweed anyway. So, the nutrients stay in your tank.
Then the ammonia/ammonium hits your rocks, and the periphyton on them consumes more ammonia and urea. Periphyton is both algae and animals, and is the reason your rocks change color after a few weeks. Then the ammonia goes inside the rock, or hits your sand, and bacteria there convert it into nitrite and nitrate. However, the nutrients are still in your tank.
Also let's not forget phosphate, which comes from solid organic food particles. When these particles are eaten by microbes and clean up crew, the organic phosphorus in them is converted into phosphate. However, the nutrients are still in your tank.
So whenever you have algae "problems", you simply have not exported enough nutrients compared to how much you have been feeding (note: live rock can absorb phosphate for up to a year, making it seem like there was never a problem. Then, there is a problem).
So just increase your nutrient exports. You could also reduce feeding, and this has the same effect, but it's certainly not fun when you want to feed your animals
Mark C
Community Member
Santa Monica, so you're saying that eventually, given enough time, the hair algae will die?
I have already reduced my feeding regimen drastically since I started the vodka dosing.
And yes, I had no problems with hair algae for the first year of my tank being set up.
Looking at a phosphate reactor right now.
Thanks for the help!
I have already reduced my feeding regimen drastically since I started the vodka dosing.
And yes, I had no problems with hair algae for the first year of my tank being set up.
Looking at a phosphate reactor right now.
Thanks for the help!
Gradually go away?? No, not by themselves, if you don't change the parameters. Run GFO and your Vodka, then yes, they will die out.
Mark C
Community Member
All my parameters are very good! Nitrates are now undetectable, and everything is as good as I can get them.
I'm currently researching phosphate reactors. I'm hoping that will solve my problem.
If not, I'm going to a fish only tank.
I'm currently researching phosphate reactors. I'm hoping that will solve my problem.
If not, I'm going to a fish only tank.
Cheaper to throw a bag of PhosGaurd in a high flow area. Works great!
petemichelle
Well-Known Member
I'm having the same kind of problem. I have added a BRS phosphate reactor, and am running BRS high grade GFO and carbon in it. I also use the red sea no pox. still the green hair algae grows. I've added emerald crabs and a hippo tang. the hippo tang won't eat the algae, (should have gotten a yellow tang, I hear they eat more algae.) I'll tag along on this thread, please post if you find something that works. I have a 18 month old 29 gal bio cube. alk 12.2, calcium 450, mag 1360. I've cut the feeding way down to the point I've got to keep a real good eye on the corals to see if there are any changes. I switch between brine shrimp one day and frozen mysis shrimp the next. I do rinse the frozen food and brine shrimp before I put it in the tank. also the feeding is gradual so that I can see that everything gets eaten before it hits the rocks or sand. i'm about to do the 3 days of darkness, but am concerned about the effect it may have on the corals.
does anybody know how 3 days of darkness will effect the corals?
also do you guys vacuum your sand? I have 2 inches of natures ocean .5 to 1.7 size grain sand. obviously if i use a gravel type siphon vacuum like on fresh water gravel tanks, it will suck up the sand because it is so fine. how do you guys clean your sand?
does anybody know how 3 days of darkness will effect the corals?
also do you guys vacuum your sand? I have 2 inches of natures ocean .5 to 1.7 size grain sand. obviously if i use a gravel type siphon vacuum like on fresh water gravel tanks, it will suck up the sand because it is so fine. how do you guys clean your sand?
Bad Company
Well-Known Member
I you are blasting your tank or 10 hours with strong light as well as not efectively exporting N & P, you are making an ideal environment for the algae to grow. Sea hares, snails, and hermit crabs eat the algae and return the nitrates and phosphates to the water column, where filtration or macro algae in the sump can remove it for good.
I feed A LOT in a 70 gallon cube, I have about 25 hermit crabs of varius species, 30 snails of varius species, and all I filter with is a waterfall algae scrubber and an Eshoops PSK-100H skimmer, no chemicals, no carbon, no reactors, no maintenance expense. My tank is 7 months old, and I have no nuisance algae:
I feed A LOT in a 70 gallon cube, I have about 25 hermit crabs of varius species, 30 snails of varius species, and all I filter with is a waterfall algae scrubber and an Eshoops PSK-100H skimmer, no chemicals, no carbon, no reactors, no maintenance expense. My tank is 7 months old, and I have no nuisance algae:
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Bad Company
Well-Known Member
Do you have a blenny? Mine MOWED through the algae I have in the first few months as the tank stabilized.
Yellow Tang or Sailfin Tang will take care of all nuisance algae within a few days. I currently have a lg Yellow in my DT & a very sm Sailfin in my frag tank (move up to one of my larger tanks or sell when they outgrow the frag tank) and now have no problems with green hair algae. Been at this for almost 10 yrs & I know what you are going through, been there a few times over the years. In fact my 2nd yr keeping a reef tank my Yellow tang died (mishap with a foxface) & when the tank was overrun with green hair algae I lost all the corals in my tank!!! Turbo snails & emerald crabs will eat some but not control the problem (& beware of the emerald crab, it is not as “reef safe as all say). Sea Hairs do a great job…BUT…once the green hair algae is gone they will die quickly whereas the Tangs can be fed with seaweed sheets. I also agree that 10 hrs of light is a bit much, would look at this more than how much you are feeding the tank. Good luck…Don’t give
Yellow Tang or Sailfin Tang will take care of all nuisance algae within a few days. I currently have a lg Yellow in my DT & a very sm Sailfin in my frag tank (move up to one of my larger tanks or sell when they outgrow the frag tank) and now have no problems with green hair algae. Been at this for almost 10 yrs & I know what you are going through, been there a few times over the years. In fact my 2nd yr keeping a reef tank my Yellow tang died (mishap with a foxface) & when the tank was overrun with green hair algae I lost all the corals in my tank!!! Turbo snails & emerald crabs will eat some but not control the problem (& beware of the emerald crab, it is not as “reef safe as all say). Sea Hairs do a great job…BUT…once the green hair algae is gone they will die quickly whereas the Tangs can be fed with seaweed sheets. I also agree that 10 hrs of light is a bit much, would look at this more than how much you are feeding the tank. Good luck…Don’t give
Use GFO in a reactor. Also consider bio pellet reactor. Ditch flake and pellets. Only use frozen and drain it in a brine shrimp net. It will take time to export nutrients even if you stopped adding anymore. Be patient it could take several months to get rid of all the nutrients in the tank. Make sure your using RO water. If you are not using conductivity meter on your RO unit add one.
