ATI ICP and related questions

[JakeLikesReefs]

Hey Guys,

I decided to do an ICP test recently because though my tank parameters seemed proper I was have issues with zoa health and quite a bit of algae. I got my test results and will list here:



The day I submitted the test I took all my own readings as follows:

Alk - 8.2 (Hanna)
Cal - 440 (API)
Mag - 1445 (salifert)
No3 - 2.5 (salifert)
Po4 - .00 (low range Hanna, not phosphorous)

My salinity that day was 36 PPT with minor fluctuations as per my Apex and my refractometer reflected 1.026 (standard handheld to eyepiece device).

My readings suggest my salinity is horribly off and my calcium is quite high w mag through the roof. Anything else that you would note beyond what they suggested? Any suggestions for me? Wanna get this tank dialed in right.

Tank is a Nuvo 25 lagoon running with about 16 gallons of water. I have a radions xr15 for lighting. I just installed a eshopps protein skimmer and also run a reactor w GFO. I utilize marine pure balls for extra bio filtration.

Thanks,
Jake

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I'd get or make a new 35 ppt calibration standard. Either you or they are off.

Raising the salinity will boost some things that are low, such as potassium, but will, unfortunately, raise things that are already high too (e.g., magnesium).

Will raising salinity help the zooanthid issue? not sure.

I do not see anything else of note except that a number of trace elements are undetectable. A trace element supplement might be useful.

 

[JakeLikesReefs]

I'd get or make a new 35 ppt calibration standard. Either you or they are off.

Raising the salinity will boost some things that are low, such as potassium, but will, unfortunately, raise things that are already high too (e.g., magnesium).

Will raising salinity help the zooanthid issue? not sure.

I do not see anything else of note except that a number of trace elements are undetectable. A trace element supplement might be useful.

Thanks for the quick reply!!! Any recommendations on a trace element supplement??

Thanks,
Jake

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Thanks for the quick reply!!! Any recommendations on a trace element supplement??

Thanks,
Jake

Not really. You might check the ingredient list (if there is one) and confirm they have the ones that you need. I consider all of these as potential benefits for you:

manganese
iron
vanadium
zinc
maybe copper, cobalt, and chromium

no need for molybdenum

It is not a trace element and I am not convinced it is generally useful, but many folks think iodide is useful (including for zoo's) and yours is low. It is easy to supplement it. I'd pick an iodide-based supplement (most are that are not Lugols).

 

[JakeLikesReefs]

Not really. You might check the ingredient list (if there is one) and confirm they have the ones that you need. I consider all of these as potential benefits for you:

manganese
iron
vanadium
zinc
maybe copper, cobalt, and chromium

no need for molybdenum

It is not a trace element and I am not convinced it is generally useful, but many folks think iodide is useful (including for zoo's) and yours is low. It is easy to supplement it. I'd pick an iodide-based supplement (most are that are not Lugols).

What is wrong with lugols?

Jake

 

[JakeLikesReefs]

Ah, just did some reading up.

Thanks for the input!

Jake

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Nothing is "wrong" with it, per se, but it is an unnatural form that is reactive and can have effects beyond increasing the natural forms of iodine in seawater. Effects like changing the form of trace elements.

I discuss iodine here:

Chemistry And The Aquarium: Iodine in Marine Aquaria: Part I ? Advanced Aquarist | Aquarist Magazine and Blog
https://web.archive.org/web/20030422004959/http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/mar2003/chem.htm

Chemistry And The Aquarium: Iodine In Reef Tanks 2: Effects On Macroalgae Growth ? Advanced Aquarist | Aquarist Magazine and Blog
https://web.archive.org/web/20030419082711/http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/april2003/chem.htm

and her's a copy and paste from another recent thread:

First of all, in seawater, iodine takes the forms iodide (I-) and iodate (IO3-). It is generally thought in the scientific literature that iodide (I-) is the one that is primarily bioavailable to organisms that use iodine for some purpose (it isn't clear that most corals like acropora actually use iodine in any form, but that's a different question entirely). A few organisms can take up iodate and convert it into iodide, so these two forms are in a slow equilibrium with each other in seawater.

Lugols is a mixture of iodide (I-) and di-iodine (I2). The I2 is quite reactive and somewhat unnatural and unstable for seawater. It willf airly quickly react with something (organic matter, inorganic ions, or organism tissues). At sufficient concentration, I2 kills microorganisms such as bacteria and that is why it is used to disinfect wounds. Lugols has been used as a disinfectant. The I- is present to allow more I2 to dissolve (as I3-) than normally would since it is not especially soluble.

Lugols is not particularly concentrated compared, for example, to potassium iodide solutions which can be more concentrated. Normal Lugols is about 15% iodine by weight. You can easily match that or higher with potassium iodide alone.

I generally recommend dosing iodide as the source of "iodine" for a reef tank, although I certainly recognize that many people use Lugols, mostly due to ready availability at a pharmacy or for historic reasons since others have done so.

ORP is really a complex measurement that is quite hard to interpret. Only a very few ions are actually able to react with an ORP probe, and the redox reactuions in tank water are far from equilibrium. I wouldn't spend too much effort trying to understand them unless you are keenly interested in complex chemistry details.

What I meant by trace element speciation was the potential for, say the I2 in Lugols to react with certain trace elements, such as ferrous ion (Fe++) to make the more oxidized form (ferric ion, Fe+++). So the nature of the trace elements can change in a reef tank by adding oxidizers (O2, hydrogen peroxide, ozone, I2, permanganate, etc.) as well as reducers (e.g., vitamin C) . I2 is not nearly as oxidizing as O2, but it is much more likely to actually react. Another chemistry complexity.

 

[JakeLikesReefs]

Would bright well iodion solution be acceptable? Branded as being different from their lugols solution and being iodide based.

Thanks,
Jake

 

[JakeLikesReefs]

Just finished ready your post, will read your articles when I'm off work! Thanks for so much information!!

Jake

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Would bright well iodion solution be acceptable? Branded as being different from their lugols solution and being iodide based.

Thanks,
Jake

I'm actually not a fan of secret ingredient products like this one:

"The nature of iodide sources used makes Iodion more effective than standard iodide-solutions."

Since I just do not trust companies to make these decisions for me (especially not this company).

There are lots of brands that are fine iodide products. ESV, Kent, Seachem, etc.

 

[JakeLikesReefs]

Any thoughts on contributing factors to algae outbreak given the ICP results?

Jake

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Algae is not caused by one thing in excess. It needs lots of different things, and if all of those are sufficient, it will grow. Boosting one of those things exceptionally high will typically not make it grow even faster.

 

[JakeLikesReefs]

Algae is not caused by one thing in excess. It needs lots of different things, and if all of those are sufficient, it will grow. Boosting one of those things exceptionally high will typically not make it grow even faster.

@Randy Holmes-Farley here is a follow-up icp test. Would love your thoughts. Still having sought algae issues along with mixed growth results w my coral.

Thanks,
Jake

 

[JakeLikesReefs]

#reefsquad

 

[JakeLikesReefs]

Open to anyone's thoughts on ICP results and RO results.

Thanks,
Jake