ATI results back, sources of vanadium?

[Maggie321]

Thank you. I am happy as can be for your tank turn around. And appreciative beyond words for a community like this that we can all benefit from and learn from. Thanks guys for your contributions!

 

[rkpetersen]

It is the "Tahitian moon" variety. It says safe for saltwater... but we know how that goes sometimes.

Always heard that the "Tahitian Moon" has magnetic properties and have stayed away from that sand.

We also put a sample of the Hawaiian black sand in the SEM. They couldn't look more different. This sand was much more chemically uniform and had few inclusions of any type. It was also distractingly beautiful.

Fascinating thread. As it happens, I am currently using black sand (Carib-Sea IP) in a new tank build. I've sent off one Triton sample and did also see elevated nickel of 15 ppb, which may well be coming from the sand, as I can't see another source. Interestingly, vanadium was also elevated, but only slightly at 3 ppb.

Because I had heard some things about black sand, I decided to rinse it well first before adding it to the DT (removing the 'live' component) and also run some strong magnets through it to make sure there were no pieces of metal lurking. I was astonished by two things. First, the amount of dark organic and mineral crud that came out of that sand. Yikes. Second, the black sand particles themselves adhere strongly to strong magnets. (Yes, other brands of black sand share this trait, apparently.) If these grains are ferromagnetic they must contain significant amounts of iron, nickel, and/or other less common elements (some of which are not tested for with ICP testing.)

There are other good reasons for not using black sand. As Randy alludes, not chemically optimal. Also, the individual particles are harder and sharper-edged than typical aragonite sand. This, combined with their magnetic properties, is a set up for scratched glass. Have to be very careful with this stuff.

So far, fish, lps, sps, nems in this new tank are happy. I sent the Triton sample not to address any issues, but as a baseline. However I am concerned that nickel could be an issue and that it may continue to leach from the substrate. But for how long? And to what level will it rise if I don't address it specifically? Should I run something like polyfilter on a regular basis? Or just remove the sand and replace it with boring white?

 

[SashimiTurtle]

I have a new tank on the way... a bigger tank . This was a compromise with my ex. She doesn't have a say anymore. I'll be using an aragonite sand for a few sand sleeping wrasse. This Hawaiian looks nice, but I'm afraid they might injure themselves diving in.

 

[rkpetersen]

Yeah I'm not keeping any wrasses in this tank either. I'm still undecided if the substrate is too coarse for gobies and pistol shrimp.

 

[SashimiTurtle]

Yeah I'm not keeping any wrasses in this tank either. I'm still undecided if the substrate is too coarse for gobies and pistol shrimp.

My dwarf moray seems to be ok with it right now. He's dug a few tunnels under the rock. The two wrasse I have are fairies, so they sleep in a mucus cocoon tucked up in the rocks. My fighting conch won't bury in it, just scoots across the top... and not often.

 

[40B Knasty]

I have a new tank on the way... a bigger tank . This was a compromise with my ex. She doesn't have a say anymore. I'll be using an aragonite sand for a few sand sleeping wrasse. This Hawaiian looks nice, but I'm afraid they might injure themselves diving in.

Mine has been diving in it for a good year and a half. No issues yet. It is a salt & pepper aragonite.

 

[Brian1f1]

Mine has been diving in it for a good year and a half. No issues yet. It is a salt & pepper aragonite.

Do you know the brand/type? Looking for something like that that’s safe...

 

[40B Knasty]

Do you know the brand/type? Looking for something like that that’s safe...

I picked it up at Petsmart.
You can always find the safest brand and granular size you want of a black bag and a white bag of equal pounds of weight. Then just mix it and keep turning it over till it is evenly distributed. Then dump it in the tank. Or even if you want a little more white to help with reflection off the sand bed. Say if you have a 40g. Buy 30lbs of white and 10-15lbs of black aragonite.

 

[Brian1f1]

I picked it up at Petsmart.
You can always find the safest brand and granular size you want of a black bag and a white bag of equal pounds of weight. Then just mix it and keep turning it over till it is evenly distributed. Then dump it in the tank. Or even if you want a little more white to help with reflection off the sand bed. Say if you have a 40g. Buy 30lbs of white and 10-15lbs of black aragonite.

That’s Sahara Sand! I like how it looks. I started a thread asking if it was reef safe last night. I can’t find any info on what it’s made out of anywhere.

 

[Brian1f1]

That’s Sahara Sand! I like how it looks. I started a thread asking if it was reef safe last night. I can’t find any info on what it’s made out of anywhere.

How do you know the black Sahara Sand particles are aragonite?

 

[40B Knasty]

That’s Sahara Sand! I like how it looks. I started a thread asking if it was reef safe last night. I can’t find any info on what it’s made out of anywhere.

Definitely not reef safe

 

[Brian1f1]

Definitely not reef safe

No issues with sps where you’ve tried it? Tanks beautiful.

 

[40B Knasty]

No issues with sps where you’ve tried it? Tanks beautiful.

I am not a fan of sticks. I run a lower flow. More bounce for frogspawn, candy cane, AUS gold torch and indo gold torch. I did just pick up a bubblegum digitata this past weekend at a frag show for $20. It hasn't opened up yet, but I am battling cyanobacteria pretty bad and finding the right spot for it. It is up top in the middle of the picture.

 

[SashimiTurtle]

FWIW, zoas were mostly unaffected as was most LPS. Montipora digitata could survive, as did my capricornis. All other SPS STNed, including three birds nests.

 

[GoVols]

Fascinating thread. As it happens, I am currently using black sand (Carib-Sea IP) in a new tank build. I've sent off one Triton sample and did also see elevated nickel of 15 ppb, which may well be coming from the sand, as I can't see another source. Interestingly, vanadium was also elevated, but only slightly at 3 ppb.

Because I had heard some things about black sand, I decided to rinse it well first before adding it to the DT (removing the 'live' component) and also run some strong magnets through it to make sure there were no pieces of metal lurking. I was astonished by two things. First, the amount of dark organic and mineral crud that came out of that sand. Yikes. Second, the black sand particles themselves adhere strongly to strong magnets. (Yes, other brands of black sand share this trait, apparently.) If these grains are ferromagnetic they must contain significant amounts of iron, nickel, and/or other less common elements (some of which are not tested for with ICP testing.)

There are other good reasons for not using black sand. As Randy alludes, not chemically optimal. Also, the individual particles are harder and sharper-edged than typical aragonite sand. This, combined with their magnetic properties, is a set up for scratched glass. Have to be very careful with this stuff.

So far, fish, lps, sps, nems in this new tank are happy. I sent the Triton sample not to address any issues, but as a baseline. However I am concerned that nickel could be an issue and that it may continue to leach from the substrate. But for how long? And to what level will it rise if I don't address it specifically? Should I run something like polyfilter on a regular basis? Or just remove the sand and replace it with boring white?

@rkpetersen
That's some great observation

Thanks for taking the time to show your findings and adding to the thread.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

How do you know the black Sahara Sand particles are aragonite?

No black grains are aragonite.

 

[40B Knasty]

No black grains are aragonite.

So should I be pulling my sand? Trust me right now I would not be upset to start the sand bed over with. I do believe there is a 20lbs bag of black Hawaiian in my sand bed as well

 

[TheEngineer]

Awesome thread! I recently took my 50g cube down that had Hawaiian black sand. I’ve never in my almost 25 years in this hobby had that much trouble with a tank. It was one thing after another after another. I’m convinced the sand had something to do with it.

Never again!

 

[Brian1f1]

Well, I think I’m letting go of that dream lol

 

[40B Knasty]

Okay so with all this talk of numbers and elements leeching. Is regular aragonite beneficial and reef safe, because I need all the help I can get with pH staying higher.