ATO Cycling too much

lemonyx · Nov 16, 2011

My relay clicks on and off every couple of minutes and want to change that. Any Ideas??

Sorry no pixs, PC not reading the flash card :cry:

Anyway I have a float switch located in the return area of the sump

(before water)
The switch connects to a relay and is on low voltage, 12v DC, the relay kicks on and activates a Power Head and a solenoid (to stop siphoning) that pumps RO/Di from a 55gal barrel thru a DIY kalk reactor and back to the sump. There's a way to wire it up to leep just this from happening, but at the moment I have a big brain FART :sure:

jaytizzle · Nov 16, 2011

Not sure why you're worried about many short cycles. I use a Tunze Osmolator connected to a reservoir (that automatically re-fills itself based on float switch sequences) and it cycles several times throughout the day. A very small change in water level in my sump causes the pump to turn on, run for a short time, then turn back off. This system in particular is designed for very precise level control.

Regardless, I'm not sure how much I can help you. I run all of my control through an Apex and I could advise programming there but not sure how to work your situation.

OhYeah · Nov 17, 2011

If you have an apex, you can set a delay so it won't turn on and off with the slightest water movement.

OhYeah · Nov 17, 2011

Some people also put slash guard around the float switch (float switch inside a medicine bottle with holes)

lemonyx · Nov 18, 2011

Thank's guys, took care of it for now, just added a piece of round acrylic to encase the switch with vents at the top. When i get my Apex, I'll hit you guy's up for programming help.

thanks again

ModAquatics · Nov 22, 2011

Here ya go....
Water Pump Hysteresis Circuit - Water

scrapz · Nov 22, 2011

Your return chamber is too small. I have the same problem which is why I plan to make the return chamber at least 12"+ in my next sump

beaslbob · Nov 22, 2011

you could use a lower relay to turn it on and an upper relay to turn it off.

but I havent designed any ato's so have no experience.

ModAquatics · Nov 23, 2011

beaslbob said:
you could use a lower relay to turn it on and an upper relay to turn it off.

but I havent designed any ato's so have no experience.

Yes, That can be done but the problem is that you should always have 2 float switches for each circuit for redundancy since float switches will fail eventually. So if you did upper and lower limit switches you would need 4 float switches. Also, the 2 submerged switches would constantly be submerged which would increase the chance of algae or snails, etc. messing it up. However, if you still want to do it that way then here is how; (courtesy of Chicago Sensor)

lemonyx · Nov 23, 2011

Thanks for the help, that clears it up

blurry · Dec 11, 2011

having two switches wired together with the backup above the other for redundency is very preferred (if one sticks in the full position the other will act as the float switch)

Easiest way to ATO is with a controller: set to have a set timer run for X seconds when activated. I run a maxijet1200 for 30 seconds when the ATO is tripped, and force it off for 9:30 seconds after. This has a few benefits - (1) the RODI is connected to my topoff, so it isn't constantly being hammered on (2) even if all goes wrong I only add 30 seconds of water every 10 minutes so the flooding is reduced.

AZDesertRat · Dec 12, 2011

Two or three float switches is much better than one since it gives you both a range between on and off plus a redundant emergency off. One switch is like having a float valve with very limited range.

blurry · Dec 12, 2011

The emergency off is a good addition. Using it as a high stop adds more switches that can fail. Timer is preferred IMO

AZDesertRat · Dec 12, 2011

Good switches rarely fail.
I use the Ultra Precise Level Controller-II found on sale here:
Untitled Document

for my ATO in the sump and the Solenoid Valve Controller in my 23 gallon ATO reservoir like found here:
Solenoid Valve Controller by SpectraPure

The UPLC gives me between 1/10" and 4" user adjusted range, can be adjusted to 10 different fill rates and uses the same peristalticpump as their popular LiterMeter so is bulletproof.

The Solenoid kit uses the very robust horizontal type float switches that are completely encapsulated so rarely fail.

jelly · Dec 12, 2011

when you set your ATO up with 2 switches should the switches be on the same BB outlet number or on 2 different BB outlets for the apex

blurry · Dec 12, 2011

I like those switches, look like pressure based like avast is using.

jaytizzle · Dec 12, 2011

jelly said:
when you set your ATO up with 2 switches should the switches be on the same BB outlet number or on 2 different BB outlets for the apex

you want them as 2 different switches. I have mine with a low level switch to turn on my RODI unit, a high level switch to turn it off, and an emergency high level switch to serve as a backup in case the first one fails and also sends me a notification that it got too high and the first float failed. Mine are in RODI storage, though, so it's not likely they'll fail as there's nothing to build up on them.

Hahnmeister · Dec 20, 2011

There is a simple non-electronic way to solve this:

Take the ouptut hose from the ATO that supplies fresh water to the sump and raise it up a little, then wrap it like a coil around something so that it is still a downward slope at all times (think giant waterslide). You may need to add some hose as well.

This way, the ATO will turn on, but no water will actually enter the sump for a bit... it will be taking its time going down the loop. When water starts to enter the sump, the hose will be filled with water still, so even after the ATO shuts off, it will continue to drain more water into the sump. This way, you will have less frequent top-off cycles that each add more water.

Another method is to have the ATO water enter a cup or other container with a small hole in the bottom. If you make the hole small enough to restrict the ATO's output to a lower flow rate, it will take longer to fill, right? And in the meantime the ATO will fill up the cup so that after the ATO shuts off, water will continue to flow into the sump. Just make sure that the duration that the ATO is on will not cause the cup to overflow, as in: make your cup big enough or give it a backup overflow port (I just position my cup in the sump so if it overflows, its into the sump).

Otherwise, yes, I think having a small arduino or other microcontroller based ATO is smart so you can program in other failsafes like "delay before turn on" to eliminate wave triggers, "maximum duty cycle" to prevent overflows from float failure or a leak, "minimum duty cycle" to prevent ATO cycles that are too small, and with a microcontroller, you can even make it so that it logs the info or reports its on/off times to the web or sends you an emergency email or text should the ATO sense an emergency. To solve this problem however, all you need is a cup or some extra hose.