ATO help or advice!

[jdivz87]

Hello fam,

So I have a reef breeders ATO and I’m noticing that by the time it gets to lower sensor which activates the ATO salinity is like 1.028

Would that be normal to go from 1.025 to 1.028 between the ATO fill times?

 

[The_Paradox]

What size is the chamber it’s sitting in? Unless it’s in a huge chamber with a relatively low total system volume that’s excessive. Even then it’s excessive but functioning as intended.

 

[JNalley]

Man, this question is going to be answered in so many different ways...

That small of a swing is unlikely to have much negative affect. I will say that first and foremost.

Secondly, the ocean isn't a homogenous body of water, salinity levels are different in different part of the ocean, for instance the Red Sea has a ppm of like 38-40 in some parts, while the Caribbean has a ppm of like 35 throughout most of it. read this: https://rfarawati.kau.edu.sa/Files/0002674/files/27785_Salinity.pdf

Thirdly, rainwater affects salinity in a reef environment locally, and the surface salinity can be affected by as much as a .003 swing in specific gravity.

All that being said, you can get an ATO with a narrower trigger so that it remains more stable... look for one with 2 separate sensors, or get one where the sensor readings are relatively close together...

 

[jdivz87]

What size is the chamber it’s sitting in? Unless it’s in a huge chamber with a relatively low total system volume that’s excessive. Even then it’s excessive but functioning as intended.

It’s a 32 Fiji cube AIO

 

[jdivz87]

Man, this question is going to be answered in so many different ways...

That small of a swing is unlikely to have much negative affect. I will say that first and foremost.

Secondly, the ocean isn't a homogenous body of water, salinity levels are different in different part of the ocean, for instance the Red Sea has a ppm of like 38-40 in some parts, while the Caribbean has a ppm of like 35 throughout most of it. read this: https://rfarawati.kau.edu.sa/Files/0002674/files/27785_Salinity.pdf

Thirdly, rainwater affects salinity in a reef environment locally, and the surface salinity can be affected by as much as a .003 swing in specific gravity.

All that being said, you can get an ATO with a narrower trigger so that it remains more stable... look for one with 2 separate sensors, or get one where the sensor readings are relatively close together...

Love this response haha! I guess I just never really noticed and measured when it’s there. But it makes sense, I guess as long as the fish and everything is used to it , no biggie

 

[Reeferbadness]

I've had some pretty big swings in salinity due to my Hanna checker being out of calibration or using RO/DI water by accident (5 g in a 180 g tank) for a water change and effects were minimal. That being said, i due try to keep it at 35.00 but i wouldn't worry to much for small swings

 

[Mr. Mojo Rising]

Would that be normal to go from 1.025 to 1.028 between the ATO fill times?

I would say no. My salinity remains the same, that's exactly the point of having an ATO.

 

[jdivz87]

I would say no. My salinity remains the same, that's exactly the point of having an ATO.

So any ideas? Because that’s what I figured the point of an ATO is

 

[JNalley]

My salinity remains the same

Just so you know, this is an impossibility. Your salinity swings, when water evaporates it goes up, until fresh water is added, then it goes down again. Unless your sensor is so finely tuned that it's replacing water as it's evaporating (not waiting till a certain volume evaporates before triggering a sensor), your salinity swings. There are no ATO's on the market so precise that salinity remains perfectly flatlined at 35ppt at all times. The determining factor is going to be how far apart the sensors are, and how large/small the chamber the sensor is in is... A larger chamber and a larger distance between sensors will cause larger swings, a smaller chamber and a smaller distance between sensors will create much smaller swings. This is how they work. And I will re-iterate, a 0.003 swing in Specific gravity is nothing to worry about... at all...

 

[jdivz87]

Just so you know, this is an impossibility. Your salinity swings, when water evaporates it goes up, until fresh water is added, then it goes down again. Unless your sensor is so finely tuned that it's replacing water as it's evaporating (not waiting till a certain volume evaporates before triggering a sensor), your salinity swings. There are no ATO's on the market so precise that salinity remains perfectly flatlined at 35ppm at all times. The determining factor is going to be how far apart the sensors are, and how large/small the chamber the sensor is in is... A larger chamber and a larger distance between sensors will cause larger swings, a smaller chamber and a smaller distance between sensors will create much smaller swings. This is how they work. And I will re-iterate, a 0.003 swing in Specific gravity is nothing to worry about... at all...

I will clean it and continue as usual. Thank you

 

[JNalley]

Heh, just FYI, I re-read my posts, I keep using ppm, it's ppt... I am just so used to discussing Nitrate and Phosphate that muscle memory types ppm... but for salinity, you should be working in ppt...

 

[JNalley]

@jdivz87 here is a chart to help you, but, because SG is affected by temp, you should get into the habit of discussing ppt instead of SG. Keep in mind, again, with that PDF I shared earlier, the PPT of the red sea is 3-4 ppt different between the northern partr of the red sea, and the southern part of the red sea, and the same fish occupy both spaces...

 

[Mr. Mojo Rising]

Just so you know, this is an impossibility. Your salinity swings, when water evaporates it goes up, until fresh water is added, then it goes down again. Unless your sensor is so finely tuned that it's replacing water as it's evaporating (not waiting till a certain volume evaporates before triggering a sensor), your salinity swings. There are no ATO's on the market so precise that salinity remains perfectly flatlined at 35ppt at all times. The determining factor is going to be how far apart the sensors are, and how large/small the chamber the sensor is in is... A larger chamber and a larger distance between sensors will cause larger swings, a smaller chamber and a smaller distance between sensors will create much smaller swings. This is how they work. And I will re-iterate, a 0.003 swing in Specific gravity is nothing to worry about... at all...

Why so defensive lol? I don't have chambers, 2 of my tanks don't even have sumps, I only keep nano tanks and the sensor is in the tank. I keep my tanks at 1.025, and when I do water changes every week, I check my tanks they are always are 1.025. That is my reality that I live by.

 

[JNalley]

Why so defensive lol? I don't have chambers, 2 of my tanks don't even have sumps, I only keep nano tanks and the sensor is in the tank. I keep my tanks at 1.025, and when I do water changes every week, I check my tanks they are always are 1.025. That is my reality that I live by.

Explaining how something works is considered "defensive"... got it...

 

[The_Paradox]

Explaining how something works is considered "defensive"... got it...

You are correct there is a sawtooth pattern, however it is very easy to keep it within a tenth if not a hundredth. In my 100g system I have an ATO in a return chamber that’s 6x6 and under 2g capacity. Even 1% evaporation would drop the water level several inches. 1% salinity change is only .35ppt.
I agree though salinity is not super critical but constant 3ppt swings sounds like faulty equipment or testing to me.

 

[JNalley]

You are correct there is a sawtooth pattern, however it is very easy to keep it within a tenth if not a hundredth. In my 100g system I have an ATO in a return chamber that’s 6x6 and under 2g capacity. Even 1% evaporation would drop the water level several inches. 1% salinity change is only .35ppt.
I agree though salinity is not super critical but constant 3ppt swings sounds like faulty equipment or testing to me.

Yes, but as you've just stated, it depends on the equipment and chamber size... I had a Reef Breeders Prism ATO in a 32.5 gallon AIO tank. The return chamber was 6" x 3", but the difference between the high water level marker and the low/fill marker was over 1". This caused bigger swings in the tank, relatively close to 3ppt swings if memory serves (but that AIO is not sealed all the way around so all chambers lost some water, and the display even lost some water)... As I said to him, if he wants to tackle it, he can get an ATO with sensors that are much closer together and this will correct the problem, but, in the wild, 3ppt swings are relatively common in a lot of different areas... Reefs at the mouths of rivers, the Caribbean during storm season, etc. It's not anything to worry about really, but it can be corrected, and the method for correcting is replacing the ATO with either a multi-sensor you control, or one with a single sensor that's super close together...

 

[The_Paradox]

the method for correcting is replacing the ATO with either a multi-sensor you control, or one with a single sensor that's super close together...

Or a float.

 

[edd59]

the change in salinity in display depends on the size of the return chamber where ato sensors are located in comparison to display. the bigger the ato chamber the bigger salinity change in display when ato kicks on.

 

[twentyleagues]

I know its been said but there should not be that much lag in filling. Whether or not it will affect anything or not shouldnt be the issue. Sounds like there is a fault in either the sensor or design I am not familiar with that ato. I have used Tunze only, rn osmolator 3.

I am at work so it takes me a bit to reply. I just thought of something do you have the level set to low? Like when it fills does it need to be manually topped off more to get to your desired level? is the distance between high level and low adjustable? Sorry if this was covered, I saw some slight issues on sg and bypassed a bunch of stuff.

 

[jdivz87]

I know its been said but there should not be that much lag in filling. Whether or not it will affect anything or not shouldnt be the issue. Sounds like there is a fault in either the sensor or design I am not familiar with that ato. I have used Tunze only, rn osmolator 3.

I am at work so it takes me a bit to reply. I just thought of something do you have the level set to low? Like when it fills does it need to be manually topped off more to get to your desired level? is the distance between high level and low adjustable? Sorry if this was covered, I saw some slight issues on sg and bypassed a bunch of stuff.