ATO need help

Warsteiner · May 12, 2017

I have a Reefer 250 and the reservoir is small (2-3 gallons), so i want to run my RO/DI to the reservoir with a float valve. Also know float valves can stick which worries me, so i want to add a safety feature maybe an automated shut off valve with level sensor. Any thoughts? don't want to flood the sump and house while on vacation. Maybe its not a concern since its fresh water and no salt build up. But brings up another though if the sump float valve sticks, so i might actually need two sensors.

cromag27 · May 13, 2017

The best ato you can buy.

http://spectrapure.com/DOSING-TOP-O...uto-Top-Off-System-with-Magnetic-Probe-Holder

Even Further · May 13, 2017

The spectrapure is worth it, that's what I'm using on my build.

Warsteiner · May 15, 2017

Thanks, will look into this option.

Branespikin · May 15, 2017

I have the same tank and had the same problem. This is what i did.
I have RODI setup under sink in kitchen. I have a 5 gallon acrylic container in one of my kitchen cabinets closest to my tank.
I bought 2 floats and a controller with latching relay at autotopoff.com. Also bought a solenoid from them. I bOught the low voltage controller.
Set one float in Acrylic container as my low spot and another at top as high spot.
I also purchased Tunze ATO which i setup in return pump area as this is the area that loses water.
So now when water level is low in Acrylic container it triggers the low float which sends signal via controller to solenoid and turns it on. Then RODi starts making water till it hits the high float. When high float is activated it shuts off solenoid which is an always closed solenoid.
I have been running this for almost a year. No problems whst so ever.
Do not run direct line into sump. First if it sticks you will be pouring RO water direct in sump and obrrflow and kill everything. Also this is no good for RODI membranes because TDS creep will kill ur membranes.
5 g container is good because if it does stick it will pour maximum 5 gallons. But that is where Tunze would kick in. It shuts off after a few minutes if it runs continuously so it wont dump all 5 gallons.
Its a great setup man
Parts from autotop off i think was like 60-70$

Engloid · May 15, 2017

Branespikin said:
Do not run direct line into sump. First if it sticks you will be pouring RO water direct in sump and obrrflow and kill everything. Also this is no good for RODI membranes because TDS creep will kill ur membranes.

What I did is I run the RO direct into the sump, but my apex will shut off the return pump if salinity gets too low. I also have an emergency drain, so if it keeps dumping RO into the sump, it will overflow into the basement (house) sump pump, and be pumped outside. I've run this plumbing for about 5 years. Only the last month or so did I add the Apex.

Branespikin · May 15, 2017

Ok understood but this does not help the TDS creep. You are still burning the life of the membrane?

Sleepydoc · May 15, 2017

2-3 gallons isn't much. Is there anywhere you can put a larger external reservoir for the ATO? That would be my first choice.

From where are you running the ATO line? I generally never advise running an RO line directly to the tank/ATO. In addition to the dangers of having an infinite supply of water connected to the tank, as others have mentioned RO/DI systems are not made to be continually cycled on and off. You'd be far better off having a larger reservoir hidden in the next room and running line from that to your ATO reservoir.

Do you have an ATO system or a controller? Another good option for an ATO system is the Tunze. The only time mine has failed on me was when the sensor got dirty because I hadn't cleaned it in a year and a half.

Engloid · May 15, 2017

Branespikin said:
Ok understood but this does not help the TDS creep. You are still burning the life of the membrane?

When I'm evaporating about 3 gallons or more a day, membrane life isn't that important. I don't want to make water and manually top off every day, or store that much water. I really haven't noticed any big issue with membranes anyway. I don't pay much attention to it. When I start getting high tds, I replace whatever it needs. My RO setup is about 8 stages. I have 4 places in that where I have tds meters, so I can tell what section isn't doing its job.

Sleepydoc · May 16, 2017

Engloid said:
When I'm evaporating about 3 gallons or more a day, membrane life isn't that important. I don't want to make water and manually top off every day, or store that much water. I really haven't noticed any big issue with membranes anyway. I don't pay much attention to it. When I start getting high tds, I replace whatever it needs. My RO setup is about 8 stages. I have 4 places in that where I have tds meters, so I can tell what section isn't doing its job.

Membranes wear out much more slowly than DI resin, especially if you maintain the sediment and carbon filters. I've seen automated systems that run the RO system to 'warm up' the membrane then open a valve to start making DI once that has happened. You don't say whether you have something like this set up, but if you don't you're making some expensive DI water! Even if you do, you end up wasting an awful lot of water each time the system starts up.

What are the stages of your DI system? Filter, 2 carbons, RO & 2 DI canisters only makes 6 stages. Unless you count a booster pump as a stage I can't think of what you would add.

If you can't/won't store DI water then something like this is probably the only option, but it seems like a lot of waste. For most people, some sort of remote reservoir is a better/cheaper option.

Engloid · May 16, 2017

Keep in mind that time between cycles is important. Many short cycles are better than fewer and longer cycles. I'm at work right now but if I remember right I have two carbon sediment filters, one that's a low Maybe 2 micron, then I have to our own membranes, and then three di resin containers.

Engloid · May 16, 2017

I would also add that time is money to me. Nothing is perfect right now, and Elsa with everybody everything is a work in progress. I am currently buying more float switches and I also have 1 breakout box at home, and one more on the way. There's going to be several changes happen coming up in the near future. Things work as they are now, but I do feel like there are some improvements that I can make.

Sleepydoc · May 16, 2017

Engloid said:
Keep in mind that time between cycles is important. Many short cycles are better than fewer and longer cycles. I'm at work right now but if I remember right I have two carbon sediment filters, one that's a low Maybe 2 micron, then I have to our own membranes, and then three di resin containers.

I think you have it reversed - fewer longer cycles are generally better than more short cycles (which is why direct ATO use of a RO/DI system is generally not recommended.)

2 Carbon blocks would be typical. Curious as to what the 3rd DI stage is for. Do you have the same resin in all 3? Typically people would use 2, with the 2nd stage 'polishing' anything the first chamber missed. When the TDS starts to rise after the first DI stage, the 2nd stage is moved to the first, and the DI resin is changed out of the first and the cartridge replaced in the 2nd spot. Maybe you have a different system?

One thing I would add that I thought of - many people have a combined system where they use RO for drinking water as well. If this is the case, the waste would be significantly less, since the initial water obtained while the RO filter is warming up can still be used.

Sistawolf · May 16, 2017

Following..

Engloid · May 16, 2017

The important thing is not how long the membrane is in use but how long it is not in use. Another word you are better off to have it on for 5 minutes and off for 1 minute then off for 5 minutes and on for one minute. I don't use any of water to drink utilities are nearest high here as they are many places in the country. As for my third Di stage, basically it's to increase the volume of resin.