ATO Visual Graph...Does it Exist?

[jphilip813]

Hello...I wanted to know if this exist? Similar to the Neptune DOS visual graphs on the APEX Dash Board showing how much liquid is left in the container. I currently have a 5 gallon ATO container with a optical switch, that I fill up once to twice a week, and wanted to know if its possible to get a plug/or something similar to the DOS cable (do it yourself) to show the visual graphs of how much water remains in the ATO container...this is even possible to do via Apex Fusion...

 

[Reefer Reboot]

No answers yet? I have been watching to see if anyone else would chime in as this sounds like a great idea.
I was curious as to how the DOS DDR senses how full the reservoir is. After watching the video that is on the Neptune site, I see that it is just mathematically figured which could only be done using a dosing pump with a measurable accurate output (such as DOS). I.E., you manually enter the starting level of the reservoir in Apex Fusion. Then as the DOS unit pumps out a given amount of fluid, it subtracts that from the initial volume. This only simulates an actual fluid level sensor. The DDR relies on the fluid optical sensor towards the bottom to send an alert when it gets low.
So I'm in the same boat as you with an ATO reservoir that needs filling every so many days. I have a optical fluid sensor towards the bottom that alerts me when it's time to refill. The thing is, I don't use any kind of dosing pump for the ATO, just the Apex PMUP pump which is effected by gravitational forces. Therefore I can not accurately measure how much is being pumped out, thus I can't subtract it from my initial water level. Plus I believe, from what I saw on the video, that 2 liters is the max that Fusion can be set for, although I could be wrong on this. So even if you were to use a DOS pump you may be limited to that initial volume. (Again, I'm not 100% sure of this.)
What would be possible would be to put a number of sensors at different levels in the ATO reservoir (like high, medium and low), but now I'm just cluttering up my Fusion screen.
Perhaps there is another way to do this so I'll just keep watching to see if anyone else chimes in. ;Watching

 

[jphilip813]

No answers yet? I have been watching to see if anyone else would chime in as this sounds like a great idea.
I was curious as to how the DOS DDR senses how full the reservoir is. After watching the video that is on the Neptune site, I see that it is just mathematically figured which could only be done using a dosing pump with a measurable accurate output (such as DOS). I.E., you manually enter the starting level of the reservoir in Apex Fusion. Then as the DOS unit pumps out a given amount of fluid, it subtracts that from the initial volume. This only simulates an actual fluid level sensor. The DDR relies on the fluid optical sensor towards the bottom to send an alert when it gets low.
So I'm in the same boat as you with an ATO reservoir that needs filling every so many days. I have a optical fluid sensor towards the bottom that alerts me when it's time to refill. The thing is, I don't use any kind of dosing pump for the ATO, just the Apex PMUP pump which is effected by gravitational forces. Therefore I can not accurately measure how much is being pumped out, thus I can't subtract it from my initial water level. Plus I believe, from what I saw on the video, that 2 liters is the max that Fusion can be set for, although I could be wrong on this. So even if you were to use a DOS pump you may be limited to that initial volume. (Again, I'm not 100% sure of this.)
What would be possible would be to put a number of sensors at different levels in the ATO reservoir (like high, medium and low), but now I'm just cluttering up my Fusion screen.
Perhaps there is another way to do this so I'll just keep watching to see if anyone else chimes in. ;Watching

Funny You mentioned the DOS pumps, I thought of that idea and I also thought of the multiple sensors as well...but you are correct about the sensor idea, that just clutter up the screen...I was on a YouTube Chat with the Neptune folks two nights ago and threw that question out there, but they didn't bite on it, (one of my two questions they didn't answer)...but I am seriously thinking, there has to be something out there to measure the amount of water in the ATO container of course with a cap, like 5-10 gals...

 

[Snoopy 67]

What's wrong with markers on the container if all you need is a measurement?
Or does it all has to be automated?

 

[jphilip813]

What's wrong with markers on the container if all you need is a measurement?
Or does it all has to be automated?

Well more looking for when I am not physically not at home...which is ALOT...

 

[Sisterlimonpot]

As stated you have to have a calibrated dosing pump and be able to calculate fluid used based on steps. And im sure this can be achieved by utilizing a dos configured as an ato. There are limitations because most people feel that using a smart/accurate device like dos is a waste of a smart pump. But your need to know what the fluid level in the ato reservoir should be as good a reason to use it as any.
Dos isn't designed to run continuously, the algorithm prevents it from constantly running longer than 8 minutes and requires 20 minutes or so to cool down before it can run again.

Although it sounds more like you want an easier approach that you dont have to constantly reset, every time you refill your reservoir. There are DIY solutions but gets complicated when you're away and need to communicate remotely.

If you're technically savvy you can look into a sensor known as E-tape. It's a solid state strip of varying lengths that can sense the level of fluid it's submerged in and report back I believe via variable resistance. All you need to do is write a simple code that can equate that information to gallons left in the container... I don't think you'll ever see this added to apex but might be a perfect candidate for the folks that use reefpi.

If you already have an apex and sounds like you have dos all you need is a BoB with at least 1 float switch to signal apex to turn dos on.

 

[jphilip813]

As stated you have to have a calibrated dosing pump and be able to calculate fluid used based on steps. And im sure this can be achieved by utilizing a dos configured as an ato. There are limitations because most people feel that using a smart/accurate device like dos is a waste of a smart pump. But your need to know what the fluid level in the ato reservoir should be as good a reason to use it as any.
Dos isn't designed to run continuously, the algorithm prevents it from constantly running longer than 8 minutes and requires 20 minutes or so to cool down before it can run again.

Although it sounds more like you want an easier approach that you dont have to constantly reset, every time you refill your reservoir. There are DIY solutions but gets complicated when you're away and need to communicate remotely.

If you're technically savvy you can look into a sensor known as E-tape. It's a solid state strip of varying lengths that can sense the level of fluid it's submerged in and report back I believe via variable resistance. All you need to do is write a simple code that can equate that information to gallons left in the container... I don't think you'll ever see this added to apex but might be a perfect candidate for the folks that use reefpi.

If you already have an apex and sounds like you have dos all you need is a BoB with at least 1 float switch to signal apex to turn dos on.

I actually looked it up and saw something on their website that might be worth it to go with what i am looking to do...Yeah you are correct, there is NO WAY in hell I would buy another DOS just to give me a reading....I am going ask the Neptune group as well the same question...but I think its worth the ask...appreciate your feed back to btw

 

[JoshH]

I actually looked it up and saw something on their website that might be worth it to go with what i am looking to do...Yeah you are correct, there is NO WAY in hell I would buy another DOS just to give me a reading....I am going ask the Neptune group as well the same question...but I think its worth the ask...appreciate your feed back to btw

Could you add an external gauge on your ATO container and setup a cheap wyze camera to have a look at the level? Not as fancy as sensors and all that, but works. GHL dosers could perform a similar function measuring how much gets removed and I think there limit is 100 orso gallons. But then you'd have to buy another doser. Although they are much better priced than the DOS it would use a second app which some people don't like

 

[Jon's Reef]

It doesn't have to be as precise as a doser. I could see them make a task based on the ATK, cheap way to differentiate ATK from other ATO solutions. Step 1, it runs the ATK until it runs 100 ml of RODI. Step 2, runs the ATK to distribute 500 ml. Calculates the water usage based on those 2 data points. Then it asks the fill of the reservoir. Results in a graphic similar to the DDR.

Is it going to be accurate to the ml... no. But it should be good enough.

 

[Snoopy 67]

OR, just buy 2 of the new Delta faucets that dispense specified amounts on voice command.
(insert laughing emogi)

 

[Sisterlimonpot]

It doesn't have to be as precise as a doser. I could see them make a task based on the ATK, cheap way to differentiate ATK from other ATO solutions. Step 1, it runs the ATK until it runs 100 ml of RODI. Step 2, runs the ATK to distribute 500 ml. Calculates the water usage based on those 2 data points. Then it asks the fill of the reservoir. Results in a graphic similar to the DDR.

Is it going to be accurate to the ml... no. But it should be good enough.

There are some easy programming solutions that can "ball park" it. But a bilge pump (pmup) does not distribute the same volume of liquid in a given time frame. There are so many variables that will alter the flow dramatically.

For that reason I would venture to say that given the wide range of variables accuracy couldn't be achieved, which is why Neptune hasn't barked up that tree. It would require them to add a pump that can accurately meter fluid based on time or electronic signal.

Even if they had a disclaimer that it's a ball park guesstimate people would be up in arms when their pmup pumped dry and burned up...

 

[jphilip813]

Could you add an external gauge on your ATO container and setup a cheap wyze camera to have a look at the level? Not as fancy as sensors and all that, but works. GHL dosers could perform a similar function measuring how much gets removed and I think there limit is 100 orso gallons. But then you'd have to buy another doser. Although they are much better priced than the DOS it would use a second app which some people don't like

Thats interesting...but i am thinking that it is and will not be a possibility based on the comments I am seeing on here...If it good be done, I am guessing others would have done it b4....my next thing probably would be to setup some sensors...

 

[jphilip813]

It doesn't have to be as precise as a doser. I could see them make a task based on the ATK, cheap way to differentiate ATK from other ATO solutions. Step 1, it runs the ATK until it runs 100 ml of RODI. Step 2, runs the ATK to distribute 500 ml. Calculates the water usage based on those 2 data points. Then it asks the fill of the reservoir. Results in a graphic similar to the DDR.

Is it going to be accurate to the ml... no. But it should be good enough.

Man...Neptune should take you up on your idea...

 

[JoshH]

Thats interesting...but i am thinking that it is and will not be a possibility based on the comments I am seeing on here...If it good be done, I am guessing others would have done it b4....my next thing probably would be to setup some sensors...

If you are referring to the camera idea, It has been done before I just can't remember who did it to link the thread. As for the GHL doser, I used my GHL 2.1 doser for AWC and it kept track of the amounts very accurately (You have to calibrate the pump heads after you run your tubing so the doser knows how much it's actually dispensing) I was only using 2.5 gallon buckets though. You could set an alarm on the doser to let you know when the volume gets near the lower end of things

 

[Sisterlimonpot]

Thats interesting...but i am thinking that it is and will not be a possibility based on the comments I am seeing on here...If it good be done, I am guessing others would have done it b4....my next thing probably would be to setup some sensors...

It's definitely a viable solution, an outside the box solution.

 

[jphilip813]

It's definitely a viable solution, an outside the box solution.

I am going to look, because i want it...lol (even though I might not get it)...lol