Auto Top Off Dilemma

[NemoNeil]

So I now acquired an auto top off, nothing fancy but still averagely priced


The unit has 3 sensors - 2 for the tank (one to detect low water and one for emergency overflow) and 1 for the reservoir (pump dry run cut off)


My dilemma or problem is as follows:


I placed the RO water pipe in the display tank, reason for this is that the display tank gives accurate drop in water. The sump sometimes fluctuates so I’ve gone for placing the sensor in the display tank.


My problem is that if water stops pumping from sump to display tank, the ATU (auto to up) will continue to pump RO water in the display tank. Eventually depleting the RO reservoir and flooding the sump and surrounding area.


I will still have same problem If I placed the sensor in the sump and have the RO line wired to the sump then if there’s a block in the down pipe to the sump, the return pump will keep pumping water to display meaning the ATU will kick in continually and flooding the display tank.


So what do other people do to overcome this?


Appreciate your help.

 

[Hitman]

Welcome to R2R!!!
I'm sure one of our plumbing gurus will be along soon and help you with your issues.

 

[theMeat]

Why does sump water level fluctuate?

 

[mtfish]

How is your sump set up? Can you put a single baffle where your return pump is located? That way only this section will change levels. Then add ATO sensors in this section. I do not see a good fix having ATO to the main tank. Maybe someone else can come up with a solution. Good luck and welcome to the forum.

 

[hart24601]

Generally if the drain get plugged there is more to worry about than ato running. If it concerning You could install emergency drain if possible or even get another float valve from place like autotopoff.com, but most people run around in sump, it shouldn't vary. Heck I have a baffless sump and ato is good.

 

[NemoNeil]

Thanks for quick response..

theMeat - why does sump level fluctuate? .. this has been like this for years and years.. sometimes return pump push's more then what comes down vice versa. It may be return pump is old but its always been like this from day one.. it doesn't flood the display as only the third compartment of the water gets pushed up should return get blocked. vice versa, if return pump gets blocked only some water gets to the sump as overflow pipe is somewhere near the top. yes its been running like this for a while and never had issues. it could also mean socks sometimes get over clogged meaning water pressure may slow down, i dont exactly know but making assumption. yes there may be a flaw in my setup or something not right in water fluctuating, but we not talking about massive fluctuate..

mtfish - sump has 3 baffles, overflow from display, refugium (cheato) and the return pump to display tank. yes i can give it ago and put ATO on the return pump section. but still have an issue if overflow blocks, ATU will keep pumping water in as return pump will only keep pushing water to display tank...

hart24601, - yes though about this... have an emrgency over flow pipe running outside incase of display tank flooding...

appreciate comments,

 

[theMeat]

Do you have a separate chamber for return pump?
Is it the last section?
If so does this last chamber also fluctuate?
Durso pipe overflow?

 

[Hitman]

Sounds like your right and have a pump issue. Your chamber level should not be changing like that.

 

[NemoNeil]

Do you have a separate chamber for return pump? Yes
Is it the last section? Yes
If so does this last chamber also fluctuate? Yes
Durso pipe overflow?

Yes

 

[NemoNeil]

Sounds like your right and have a pump issue. Your chamber level should not be changing like that.

regardless of pump issue, how would one stop ro water to keep pumping water in to the last chamber of the sump return should the overflow get blocked?

 

[cromag27 Verified Sponsor]

this is the only ato i will ever use, for many reasons. but it comes with a backup pressure tube that shuts it off, if the water goes past the main pressure tube. i’ve never had to use the backup. but you will want to get your pump issue resolved before worrying about your ato.

https://spectrapure.com/DOSING-TOP-...uto-Top-Off-System-with-Magnetic-Probe-Holder

 

[theMeat]

Yes

If you have a single pipe durso drain than that is likely the issue. Air and water goes down the same pipe. Water builds up in overflow to the point where air gets cut off by water level. That allows water to get organized and start to spiral down the pipe which allows water to flow more quickly and opens up a passage for air to go down. This will sound sorta like a toilet flushing every time it happens. Over and over. A stockman standpipe will help and is an easy, cheap diy.
Then you can put ato sensor and ro supply into return pump section and all will be well

 

[Hitman]

Your return drain tube is not more then a inch under water in your sump is it? If so it's causing the level issues.

 

[hart24601]

There are pump or plumbing issues if the level varies. It shouldn't change at all.

Something like the smart micro ato remembers the last few filling times and will not run more than 3x (I think it's 3x) longer than last filling so provides protection there if drain is blocked or other odd issue. Can also use a float in the display as water would rise there if blocked. The display float can shut off return pump and ato or whatever you like.

 

[NemoNeil]

If you have a single pipe durso drain than that is likely the issue. Air and water goes down the same pipe. Water builds up in overflow to the point where air gets cut off by water level. That allows water to get organized and start to spiral down the pipe which allows water to flow more quickly and opens up a passage for air to go down. This will sound sorta like a toilet flushing every time it happens. Over and over. A stockman standpipe will help and is an easy, cheap diy.
Then you can put ato sensor and ro supply into return pump section and all will be well

spot on... think this is exactly the issue... and i have put up with it for years.. its not been a big problem as water returns to right levels after fixing it self..

now that i bought a ATU, my worry is that if i put atu as normal in the last chamber of sump and return pipe is blocked, the ATU reservoir will keep filling the last chamber of the sump and return pump will keep pumping back to display flooding the display...

 

[NemoNeil]

There are pump or plumbing issues if the level varies. It shouldn't change at all.

Something like the smart micro ato remembers the last few filling times and will not run more than 3x (I think it's 3x) longer than last filling so provides protection there if drain is blocked or other odd issue. Can also use a float in the display as water would rise there if blocked. The display float can shut off return pump and ato or whatever you like.

i think thats a very cleaver idea, having a float in display to cut off RO topup... nice

 

[theMeat]

What size display tank? And what return pump are you using?

 

[NemoNeil]

Display tank is 300 litre.
Sump is around 100 litre approx.
Return pump is jeabo dc4000.
Hoping to use 100litre reservoir for ATU

But to be on safe side might use smaller reservoir.

 

[Aquavaj]

Nevermind. I read your post wrong.

 

[theMeat]

Display tank is 300 litre.
Sump is around 100 litre approx.
Return pump is jeabo dc4000.
Hoping to use 100litre reservoir for ATU

But to be on safe side might use smaller reservoir.

The reason I ask is because if you lower flow from return pump enough you will be able to get air and water going down your one drain plumbing design without fluctuation.
The old thinking was 10x display tank volume per hour. Newer thinking is 3-6x. On a 300l i’d say 4x is plenty and will likely allow for steady sump level, quieter overflow, and less heat and evaporation. Also gives water more time in sump to allow for fuge and/or skimmer more time to do it’s thing
Being that you have a Jebao dc pump it’s easy enough to press the button and give it a whirl. If not good enough google stockman standpipe