Auto top off question.

[Prairiereefer]

Hello,

I'm currently designing a new setup and was look at ATOs and had an idea but can't find if its been done before or not. I was wondering if it would be possible to run a splitter on the output of my rodi to a float valve like I currently have on my rodi container but to the sump so it automatically fills with rodi water fresh from the source and keeps the sump at the full level at all times. My thought process is that if it auto fills the small amounts as soon as it evaporates the temperature difference would be minute enough to not have to worry about it. I've attached a photo of the y splitter I am thinking of using to run the second line off the main output on my rodi.

 

[Gtinnel]

It would work but you don't really want your rodi filter kicking on frequently to top off the tank. The frequent cycling of the filter will deplete your di and cause you to possibly get water in the tank that is not 0tds due to tds creep.

 

[((FORDTECH))]

Hello,

I'm currently designing a new setup and was look at ATOs and had an idea but can't find if its been done before or not. I was wondering if it would be possible to run a splitter on the output of my rodi to a float valve like I currently have on my rodi container but to the sump so it automatically fills with rodi water fresh from the source and keeps the sump at the full level at all times. My thought process is that if it auto fills the small amounts as soon as it evaporates the temperature difference would be minute enough to not have to worry about it. I've attached a photo of the y splitter I am thinking of using to run the second line off the main output on my rodi.

The reason why this is not a good idea is because every time a rodi system gets turned on the tds is super high for first few min. So every time you top off tank it will be with 50+ tds water. And yes this will make you go thru di resin very fast

 

[Uncle99]

That works but for if any reason your ATO fails “on” your going to flood as water would just continue to fill till you notice.

At least the ATO reservoir has a limit.

 

[Gtinnel]

Also, forgot to mention that most people are uncomfortable with a something that allows an endless supply of freshwater to the tank. If it fails on it could drop the salinity too low and crash the tank...plus flood your house

 

[zalick]

Not a good idea for the reasons stated above.

 

[Prairiereefer]

Oh that makes sense. I have the booster pump that automatically flushes the system out the waste line first every time it turns on prior to making new clean water. But the rest of the reasons make a ton of sense. So in that case, which ato system, preferably not the most expensive like apex, would you recommend?

Also i plant on having an external 10 gallon refugium and am having a hard time deciding where to have it drain into the sump. So my drain from my tank will split 80% into the sump and 20% into the fuge then gravity from the fuge into the sump then returned to the tank. Just having a hard time deciding how to set it all up or the best way to do it.

 

[Gtinnel]

Also i plant on having an external 10 gallon refugium and am having a hard time deciding where to have it drain into the sump. So my drain from my tank will split 80% into the sump and 20% into the fuge then gravity from the fuge into the sump then returned to the tank. Just having a hard time deciding how to set it all up or the best way to do it.

I have a similar setup with my fuge as a separate tank that gravity feeds into my sump, but my fuge is fed off of my return pump. I have my fuge return into my return pump section, and if I were to design it again I probably would pick a different chamber. Despite my best efforts some macro algea makes it through and clogs the intake on my return pump.

 

[((FORDTECH))]

Oh that makes sense. I have the booster pump that automatically flushes the system out the waste line first every time it turns on prior to making new clean water. But the rest of the reasons make a ton of sense. So in that case, which ato system, preferably not the most expensive like apex, would you recommend?

Also i plant on having an external 10 gallon refugium and am having a hard time deciding where to have it drain into the sump. So my drain from my tank will split 80% into the sump and 20% into the fuge then gravity from the fuge into the sump then returned to the tank. Just having a hard time deciding how to set it all up or the best way to do it.

I wil guarantee you that even with your fancy flush valve that it’s not 0 tds coming out right away

 

[zalick]

Oh that makes sense. I have the booster pump that automatically flushes the system out the waste line first every time it turns on prior to making new clean water...

Does your system flush the membrane or does it divert output to the waste line?

Membrane flushing is beneficial but does not prevent TDS creep on the output side of the membrane. At least that's my understanding.

 

[Gtinnel]

I'm not sure what kind of booster pump can flush the system when first turned on but my guess would be that it is flushing the membrane. To properly counteract tds creep you would actually need to have the water bypass the di step for the first several minutes and have that water go down the drain, and then start putting the "good" water through the di and into the tank.
I actually have a homemade controller that does exactly that but it is a mess of electronics and around 6 solenoids to get an automated system that allows 0 tds water going into my container the whole time. Even with that I dont have it run for short amounts of time especially since it runs for around 5 minutes before outputting clean water.

 

[DaddyFish]

I am currently building an ATO setup like you desire, but I'm planning to use two optical water level sensors as separate Low and High ATO reservoir level sensors. The ATO Booster pump will trigger ON when the LOW sensor is activated and HIGH sensor is open. Once the RO/DI runs enough water to reach the HIGH sensor, the RO/DI Booster is shut off.
As backup the incoming RO line also runs through a mechanical float valve that is set to shutoff just above the HIGH optical sensor. Everything fails, but I'm hoping that two systems, one electronic and one mechanical don't ever fail simultaneously. There will also be a timed limit for the RO Booster to run with each cycle as additional protection.

 

[Gtinnel]

I am currently building an ATO setup like you desire, but I'm planning to use two optical water level sensors as separate Low and High ATO reservoir level sensors. The ATO Booster pump will trigger ON when the LOW sensor is activated and HIGH sensor is open. Once the RO/DI runs enough water to reach the HIGH sensor, the RO/DI Booster is shut off.
As backup the incoming RO line also runs through a mechanical float valve that is set to shutoff just above the HIGH optical sensor. Everything fails, but I'm hoping that two systems, one electronic and one mechanical don't ever fail simultaneously. There will also be a timed limit for the RO Booster to run with each cycle as additional protection.

This sounds similar to what I have except I don't have the mechanical float. My low sensor kicks on the booster pump and opens solenoids to send the water to the drain before the di stage for several minutes, it then puts the water through the di and dumps that water for a few minutes, and then as a last step it bypasses the restrictor to flush the membrane for 30 seconds. Then it finally starts making water. While running every 30 minutes it flushes the membrane for 30 seconds and then again when going to kick off. There is also a timer programmed in that shuts everything off if it runs for more than a set number of hours.

 

[Prairiereefer]

The booster pump flushing i understand and had moved on from that topic already. Instead I was then asking which ato people suggest and which portion of your sump you would have an external refugium drain into. I was thinking of having it drain into the return in order to help keep pod populations up and have them not go in the skimmer portion.

 

[[Cameron]]

Everything fails sometimes in "I just nuked my tank with RO water overlow" fashion.

I suggest creating a salt mixing station and using the RODI holding tank to top off the main display and at the same time run two lines for an auto-water change via dosing pumps.

 

[zalick]

Well, sounds like you've got it figured out. Good luck with your setup.