Auto Water Change Neptune DOS Questions

[Elgringodiablo]

I’ve previously toyed with auto water changes (AWC) via Neptune DOS and also using BRS 50ml dosing pumps. I might go this route on my next big build but had a few questions.

- Do most people doing this run the removal line into their sewer/wastewater line or a container? (Did container in the past which left me with a 45 gallon Brute to deal with draining)

- When pushing directly to home drain line, do you use RO or dosing tubing or upsize to something like 1/2” to help minimize blockage in lines that could potentially run under the floors?

- How do you insure that the same amounts of water are being removed and replaced? Seems like air bubbles could be an issue when you are moving 20+ gallons a week.

- How often are you calibrating and replacing DOS heads?

- While temp likely isn’t an issue at such small additions, do you have issues with you salt mix precipitating elementals from being premixed days in advance? (Usually mix mine night before my WC and heat up right before WC).

Thanks in advance!

 

[CC13]

I’ve previously toyed with auto water changes (AWC) via Neptune DOS and also using BRS 50ml dosing pumps. I might go this route on my next big build but had a few questions.

- Do most people doing this run the removal line into their sewer/wastewater line or a container? (Did container in the past which left me with a 45 gallon Brute to deal with draining)

- When pushing directly to home drain line, do you use RO or dosing tubing or upsize to something like 1/2” to help minimize blockage in lines that could potentially run under the floors?

- How do you insure that the same amounts of water are being removed and replaced? Seems like air bubbles could be an issue when you are moving 20+ gallons a week.

- How often are you calibrating and replacing DOS heads?

- While temp likely isn’t an issue at such small additions, do you have issues with you salt mix precipitating elementals from being premixed days in advance? (Usually mix mine night before my WC and heat up right before WC).

Thanks in advance!

I use high and low water sensors in my sump to allow the APEX to know how low to drain and then how much to re-fill back up. Therefore, I have the 'old' water going into the drain not a storage container.

This is the sequence on what is performed:

1) Water storage pump on (run for 5 minutes to mix salt water);
2) Water storage pump off;
3) ATO off;
4) GHL Maxi Doser - begins to pump from the sump into the drain (when the low level sensor is reached, it stops);
5) GHL Maxi Doser - begins to pump from the water storage bins into the sump (when the high water level sensor is reached, it stops);
6) ATO on.

The logic behind this: I don't care if I ever have a doser that is slightly more or less calibrated although the GHL dosers are top of the line. As long as I have no feed RO/DI water entering the sump at the same time at I am performing the water change (which I don't since I turn the ATO off), the water coming out is stopped at the low-level sensor and refilled back up to the high level sensor. As long as my sump is always kept at the high level sensor (which is it via ATO), then all I need to do is make sure the fresh water is mixed to the same salinity (which is it); and its pretty much self sustaining. I also know approx. how long the AWC sequence takes so you can program the APEX or GHL to shut the water change sequence off and send an alert to notify you, if the program is running over a given time.

I use regular IO salt so I am able to keep the water for weeks after being mixed. There are no organics in the salt and I don't keep it mixing around the clock. I mix it for 2-3 hours when I first make a new batch and then for 5 minutes before the water change cycle.

You can program the unit to run an AWC on any given days and times. To be honest, I run them when I am home and I manually select a water change sequence on my APEX. I simply am not able to head home right away is there were to be an issue (never had an issue), but I like to be home at least in case anything goes wrong.

 

[Elgringodiablo]

I use high and low water sensors in my sump to allow the APEX to know how low to drain and then how much to re-fill back up. Therefore, I have the 'old' water going into the drain not a storage container.

This is the sequence on what is performed:

1) Water storage pump on (run for 5 minutes to mix salt water);
2) Water storage pump off;
3) ATO off;
4) GHL Maxi Doser - begins to pump from the sump into the drain (when the low level sensor is reached, it stops);
5) GHL Maxi Doser - begins to pump from the water storage bins into the sump (when the high water level sensor is reached, it stops);
6) ATO on.

The logic behind this: I don't care if I ever have a doser that is slightly more or less calibrated although the GHL dosers are top of the line. As long as I have no feed RO/DI water entering the sump at the same time at I am performing the water change (which I don't since I turn the ATO off), the water coming out is stopped at the low-level sensor and refilled back up to the high level sensor. As long as my sump is always kept at the high level sensor (which is it via ATO), then all I need to do is make sure the fresh water is mixed to the same salinity (which is it); and its pretty much self sustaining. I also know approx. how long the AWC sequence takes so you can program the APEX or GHL to shut the water change sequence off and send an alert to notify you, if the program is running over a given time.

I use regular IO salt so I am able to keep the water for weeks after being mixed. There are no organics in the salt and I don't keep it mixing around the clock. I mix it for 2-3 hours when I first make a new batch and then for 5 minutes before the water change cycle.

You can program the unit to run an AWC on any given days and times. To be honest, I run them when I am home and I manually select a water change sequence on my APEX. I simply am not able to head home right away is there were to be an issue (never had an issue), but I like to be home at least in case anything goes wrong.

Seems pretty solid. How much water do change per day? All at once or in intervals? How far are you pushing the wastewater?

 

[CC13]

Seems pretty solid. How much water do change per day? All at once or in intervals? How far are you pushing the wastewater?

I believe in slightly larger water changes so I so 40 gallons every 3 days all in one shot.

Wastewater run from the dosing pump is approx. 15 feet but I slope the line so its easier on the pump. We have gravity, mine as well use it right lol

 

[ReeferReefer]

I use high and low water sensors in my sump to allow the APEX to know how low to drain and then how much to re-fill back up. Therefore, I have the 'old' water going into the drain not a storage container.

This is the sequence on what is performed:

1) Water storage pump on (run for 5 minutes to mix salt water);
2) Water storage pump off;
3) ATO off;
4) GHL Maxi Doser - begins to pump from the sump into the drain (when the low level sensor is reached, it stops);
5) GHL Maxi Doser - begins to pump from the water storage bins into the sump (when the high water level sensor is reached, it stops);
6) ATO on.

The logic behind this: I don't care if I ever have a doser that is slightly more or less calibrated although the GHL dosers are top of the line. As long as I have no feed RO/DI water entering the sump at the same time at I am performing the water change (which I don't since I turn the ATO off), the water coming out is stopped at the low-level sensor and refilled back up to the high level sensor. As long as my sump is always kept at the high level sensor (which is it via ATO), then all I need to do is make sure the fresh water is mixed to the same salinity (which is it); and its pretty much self sustaining. I also know approx. how long the AWC sequence takes so you can program the APEX or GHL to shut the water change sequence off and send an alert to notify you, if the program is running over a given time.

I use regular IO salt so I am able to keep the water for weeks after being mixed. There are no organics in the salt and I don't keep it mixing around the clock. I mix it for 2-3 hours when I first make a new batch and then for 5 minutes before the water change cycle.

You can program the unit to run an AWC on any given days and times. To be honest, I run them when I am home and I manually select a water change sequence on my APEX. I simply am not able to head home right away is there were to be an issue (never had an issue), but I like to be home at least in case anything goes wrong.

Are you just using a break out box and a float switch? Or is there way to use a pressure tube for sensing water level with the Apex?

 

[Burrito]

i used the dos for AWC on my 100g system
i make 34g (or whatever fits in my brute container), and put the dirty water output from the skimmer section of my sump down into my house sump which drains into the street. my clean water goes into the return section. i usual do about 2 gallons a night and am using 1/4" rodi tubing and john guest fittings attached to the DOS. i havent really worried much about air bubbles and my sump water line is very stable so my assumption is the in/out is pretty even. i run mine at night only, not 24/7

 

[CC13]

Are you just using a break out box and a float switch? Or is there way to use a pressure tube for sensing water level with the Apex?

Correct.

And I use optical level sensors. I am not too familiar with pressure tubes I do know that the Spectrapure Liter Meter uses them though.

 

[Elgringodiablo]

I believe in slightly larger water changes so I so 40 gallons every 3 days all in one shot.

Wastewater run from the dosing pump is approx. 15 feet but I slope the line so its easier on the pump. We have gravity, mine as well use it right lol

Think there is an advantage to doing a 5%ish change every few days vs higher frequency smaller amount, such as 0.1% every hour? From a stability standpoint, smaller, more frequent changes seem to make more sense, right?

 

[CC13]

Think there is an advantage to doing a 5%ish change every few days vs higher frequency smaller amount, such as 0.1% every hour? From a stability standpoint, smaller, more frequent changes seem to make more sense, right?

I agree, but I look at it from the standpoint of the the more volume of each water change, the less total changes I need to perform to change out 100% of the water.

At 5% every few days, virtually I would need to go months before I was able to change out all the water using today as a reference point. Not sure if this makes sense but the math adds up.

 

[Greybeard]

Been doing AWC for a couple of weeks. So far so good...

DOS pumping from 55g NSW reservoir to sump, from sump to waste. Waste line runs 80 feet or so, to a gravel area next to my home. Just 1/4" ID poly tube. No clogs yet... hasn't frozen either, despite some darned cold nights. Salt makes a pretty good ice melt

I'm doing the default DOS AWC setup... simultaneous NSW/Waste. 1.5 gallons a day. So far, tank salinity hasn't changed any, but I am keeping an eye on it.

The 'other' method, where you pump out to a level sensor, and pump back in to a level sensor... you've got to disable your ATO system, right? Adjustment would mean physically moving sensors, right? I'm assuming that some sort of timer backup would be required, in case a sensor didn't trip...

Seems to me the simultaneous method would be simpler, and less prone to errors.

 

[Huff747]

Been doing AWC for a couple of weeks. So far so good...

DOS pumping from 55g NSW reservoir to sump, from sump to waste. Waste line runs 80 feet or so, to a gravel area next to my home. Just 1/4" ID poly tube. No clogs yet... hasn't frozen either, despite some darned cold nights. Salt makes a pretty good ice melt

I'm doing the default DOS AWC setup... simultaneous NSW/Waste. 1.5 gallons a day. So far, tank salinity hasn't changed any, but I am keeping an eye on it.

The 'other' method, where you pump out to a level sensor, and pump back in to a level sensor... you've got to disable your ATO system, right? Adjustment would mean physically moving sensors, right? I'm assuming that some sort of timer backup would be required, in case a sensor didn't trip...

Seems to me the simultaneous method would be simpler, and less prone to errors.

Any change to phosphates and/or nitrates or other parameters?

 

[ddrueckh]

Been doing AWC for a couple of weeks. So far so good...

DOS pumping from 55g NSW reservoir to sump, from sump to waste. Waste line runs 80 feet or so, to a gravel area next to my home. Just 1/4" ID poly tube. No clogs yet... hasn't frozen either, despite some darned cold nights. Salt makes a pretty good ice melt

I'm doing the default DOS AWC setup... simultaneous NSW/Waste. 1.5 gallons a day. So far, tank salinity hasn't changed any, but I am keeping an eye on it.

The 'other' method, where you pump out to a level sensor, and pump back in to a level sensor... you've got to disable your ATO system, right? Adjustment would mean physically moving sensors, right? I'm assuming that some sort of timer backup would be required, in case a sensor didn't trip...

Seems to me the simultaneous method would be simpler, and less prone to errors.

I do the same and so far no issues. It works great...just a bit noisy so I have it set to perform water changes Monday thru Friday while I'm at work.

 

[Greybeard]

Any change to phosphates and/or nitrates or other parameters?

Nitrates in this tank are almost unmeasurable... a big refugeum full of Chaetomorpha and C. Mexicana keep it that way.

I am getting a bit of measurable phosphate, but I suspect that's from the reduced lighting I implemented at the same time as I did the AWC system. I'm working on a bubble algae problem.

I've disabled my normal dosing of ESV B-Ionic. Measuring Calc and Alk changes with the AWC. So far, Calc and Alk have been pretty stable without dosing. Note: My tank is mostly softies and zoanthids... it's not exactly high demand. I expect at some point I'll resume dosing B-Ionic at a much reduced rate.

 

[Greybeard]

I do the same and so far no issues. It works great...just a bit noisy so I have it set to perform water changes Monday thru Friday while I'm at work.

Yes on the noise... I used a couple rubber grommets on the mount screws and put a sheet of foam rubber between the pump and the wall... it reduced the noise quite a bit, but yeah, it's noticeable. Since I work from home, I don't have a big window of time where I wouldn't have to listen to it...