Auto Water Change

[Atti2de]

Had anyone used the Apex PMUP pumps for auto water change? Think god using those and using my ATK sensors in the sump to control the height in there. The use a sensor in my Salt/waste buckets. Just looking for another way then using the DOS. It would be cheaper and move more water.

 

[Reefpuck]

Lots of people use the DOS to do auto water changes. Just do a search on here and you can find lots of threads on how people set them up, programmed, etc.

 

[Atti2de]

Lots of people use the DOS to do auto water changes. Just do a search on here and you can find lots of threads on how people set them up, programmed, etc.

I don’t want to use the DOS. That’s why I asked about using the Pmup from Apex

 

[Reefpuck]

My bad!...missed that part. I actually never have seen that pump before. Well hopefully someone can help you out. I'm a bit curious myself now.

 

[Greybeard]

I'm also looking to implement auto water changes.

The PMUP is a centrifugal pump. Precision is not really something that they're known for.

If you were going to implement some sort of pump out / pump in system, these would probably work fine. Problem is, this isn't the more common type of AWC system. The pump out / pump in systems reduce water level by x gallons, then pump it back in to that level. Fine. You've got to (A) have the available water quantity in your return pump compartment, and (B) disable ATO and any other systems that would be affected by the low water level.

Most AWC systems, including the one I'm looking to implement, work in a slower, more controlled manner. They remove water, drop by drop, while at the same time replacing that water, drop by drop, so that the quantity in and quantity out match as exactly as possible, and the water level in the sump never changes. You really need peristaltic or positive displacement pump to get the level of precision these systems need. The DOS has that level of precision.

 

[Ichthus1]

I use a PMUP in my sump to remove water during my automatic water changes. I use it along with the optical float switches on the ATK to perform the change. I have been running this system without issues for over a year.

 

[Greybeard]

I use a PMUP in my sump to remove water during my automatic water changes. I use it along with the optical float switches on the ATK to perform the change. I have been running this system without issues for over a year.

Yup. That's the 'other' way to do an AWC.

Using sensors, remove X quantity of water, and then replace it. Works great. Don't forget to turn off the ATO, or it'll happily try and replace that quantity too. Depending on sump design, you might need to disable your skimmer, or other equipment. Pump speed doesn't matter much, you're pumping to a level switch. Reliable level sensors, with backups, are more important than the pumps in this design. A stuck sensor, and you could drain or flood the system!

The way most folks seem to be doing it is by pumping water out at a known rate, while pumping water in at the same rate. Calibrated, known speed pumps, slowly pumping in and out simultaneously. Nothing else in the system would even need to be aware the change was happening. No sensors needed. Yeah, it's probably going to be more expensive than the other type, but IMHO, it's safer and easier.

 

[Rcpilot]

I'm working on a DIY system with float switches. It will turn the return pump and ATO off during this period. I'll be using a simple 80GPH powerhead connected to a vinyl hose and pumping to a drain. It pumps until the lower float switch in the sump drops, and shuts it off. A different pump sends water from the saltwater reservoir into the sump. That one shuts off with a different float switch. Hopefully I can activate the entire sequence with the push of a button and have it re-energize itself after the sump is pumped full again.

I would have to manually push the button, so not truly "automatic". I don't mind spending the time to watch it go through the water change sequence. I just don't want to lug the buckets around. I've had 3 back surgeries. There's enough titanium and stainless steel in my lower back to build a small space capsule.

 

[Tikosyn]

The Genesis system is basically what you are looking for, I have it and it's awesome. It is very expensive but worth it imo.

 

[coral49]

I bought an AutoAqua AUTO WATER CHANGER (PLUS ATO) from one of the key sponsors here. I'm 1 year in and have no issues. The 1st 6 months i did a manual daily changes, then I believed it works well and set to auto daily changes. No issues and it's my ATO. I did add an emergency shut off optical eye with apex but have never needed it.

 

[Greybeard]

<snip>I just don't want to lug the buckets around. I've had 3 back surgeries. There's enough titanium and stainless steel in my lower back to build a small space capsule.

Nothing wrong with this! My back isn't too bad, but that doesn't mean I like carrying buckets

I have a salt mixing station that auto fills, and a pump that refills the tank, but I'm still siphoning into buckets, and they have to be carried out and dumped.

On Thursday, I've got a guy coming to run 1/4" hose under the house to use as an AWC waste line. It will run to a rock garden next to the house, so the salt won't kill my lawn. I'll pick up a DOS, draw from my mixing station to the sump, and from the sump to the waste line at the same time, equal rates. Set it up to change the same 30 gallons every 2 weeks, just as I do now, but evenly spread out over that time period. I'm figuring 12 oz per hour, DOS would run a minute and a half each hour. At a 5000 hour expected lifespan, should run for 20 years or so

No more buckets for me.

 

[Ichthus1]

Using sensors, remove X quantity of water, and then replace it. Works great. Don't forget to turn off the ATO, or it'll happily try and replace that quantity too. Depending on sump design, you might need to disable your skimmer, or other equipment. Pump speed doesn't matter much, you're pumping to a level switch. Reliable level sensors, with backups, are more important than the pumps in this design. A stuck sensor, and you could drain or flood the system!

Greybeard is right about the possibility for disaster with this type of system. It is important to account for as many possible failures as possible. There are three float switches in my sump. Two are on the ATK and the third is an additional optical float switch, with the magnetic mount. The extra switch is the high level stop for the AWC. The lower ATK switch is the normal running level. This turns the water change off. My system changes two gallons of water each day. The system pumps two gallons of water into the sump until it reaches the high level switch, waits thirty seconds for that water to be circulated into the display and then removes two gallons of water. The system also disables the ATK and turns off the skimmer while this is happening. This has worked really well in my tank.

However, the system was built to prevent a disaster in the event of a failure. The system is programmed to fill until it reaches the upper switch, which takes about forty-five seconds, but it will also be disabled by a timer after one minute if the switch fails. There are virtual switches that monitor conductivity, as a means of keeping salinity in check. If conductivity rises too high, or falls too low, then the system will disable the AWC and alert me. These could be triggered by a variety of factors including adding too much salt, or none at all, to the saltwater reservoir. If I forget to have enough saltwater in the reservoir, then the system is notified by a float switch in the reservoir. This tells the system to stop filling and start draining. This will result in a smaller change, but the process will complete. The reservoir pump is also backed up by a timer in case the float switch fails. The whole process is controlled by a virtual switch which will reset after six minutes. This will kill the whole process if there has been a failure anywhere along the way. This will prevent burning up any of the pumps, or removing enough water from the sump to cause the return pump to suck air.

I am sure there is something I missed, but I hope this is helpful to anyone trying to build an AWC run by the Apex.

 

[Atti2de]

I would turn off my skimmer and ATO while the change was happening. Planned on leaving the system running and start one pump 30sec or so before turning on the salt pump. There would be a little learning curve because I assume one pump may move more water than the other but that could be adjusted in programming.

 

[Atti2de]

I thought about a DOS but my mixing station is in the garage about 40 feet from the tank. I could route 1/4” tube behind the trim but it would have to go around two doors and from the mixing station to the attic. Wasn’t sure if the DOS would like all that tubing.

 

[Greybeard]

I thought about a DOS but my mixing station is in the garage about 40 feet from the tank. I could route 1/4” tube behind the trim but it would have to go around two doors and from the mixing station to the attic. Wasn’t sure if the DOS would like all that tubing.

I too have some concerns over hose length. My mixing station is right by the sump... but my drain line is going to be nearly 100 feet long. No way around it. I plan to calibrate over this distance, but yeah, I've got some concerns there.

 

[JasPR]

Murphy's law and the saying " man plans, god laughs" comes to mind here. If you wish to have a life beyond your aquariums * vacations, weekends away, the KISS method is the bomb. I get we all get caught up in ' the ultimate design' as guys with their toys tend to do, but if you dare not leave the system or delegate to a family member, I would suggest that you have a gone " a pump, too far" in obsessive compulsive behavior.