Automated Water Change system and ATO

[PSXerholic]

I extracted the Water Change system out of my 210G tank presentation.
Tank thread here for anyone who is interested:
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/psxerholics-210-gallon-reef-in-reefcity-houston.235601/

Well,
more details on the Automated Water change system.
Bear with me, the installation is not highly professional but does its purpose.

I will cover the installation details now, and some more considerations for handling and change to this system in another post in a few hours!!!! Stay tuned……………..

Here the short video I promised on my Facebook page.
I will do an upload on You tube as well later tonight.


In general what the WCS is, basically 2 RODI Booster pump on a timer, in combination with a Saltwater mixing station!!! Easy.

 

[PSXerholic]

Part 1: THE ATORODITSWRRS (Autotopoffreverseosmosisdeionizationtanksaltwaterreservoirrefillingstation)



The entire system is configured like this:

1 x RODI system externally (mounted on the wall) coming in feeding the entire system main header.

It is then branched to:

a. Top Off water system solenoid (Redundant),
Which is activated by a Auto top off level switch in the sump.
The Solenoids are on one power plug, in case one fails the other one will ensure water disconnection.

Level switch in the sump has as well a high level emergency backup switch in case the normal switch is in fault by calcification, dirt or snails. I buy my solenoids and any switches fromAutoTopOff.com since they never failed or caused any trouble.

b. One 2.5G Bladder type water reservoir

White tank, available at home depot or Filterguys, which is always filled with RODI water, to make my Stock solutions or any other purpose. Great thing, you always have RODI water handy!!! The way it’s setup and room for improvement is, that in case I’m filling my RODI water/Saltwater mixing reservoir, this tank goes empty, but I could install a check valve. The bad thing is to install a check valve is, that the water in this storage tank will never been swapped out, only if I use it for Stock solutions.

The good way it is now, the RODI tank water get drained out whenever the TOP OFF WATER System is activated, or the SW/Mixing station is refilling. So that ensures always fresh RODI water in this tank.

I have connected a long enough Tube with a manual valve so I can refill canisters easy on the floor. Since the tank is bladder type constructed, there is basically Water line pressure in it, or whatever the RODI shutoff pressure is.

c. The Saltwater/Mixing reservoir Solenoids,
this reservoir on the left is the RODI/Saltwater-mixing reservoir.

I do have a sump level switch mounted on the top, that is activating a pair of redundant solenoids.
These solenoids are connected to the header as well, that is coming from the RODI unit.
So if the Solenoids are activated due to low level of water in this reservoir, it will be refilled until the reservoir is filled up. Here as well I used a ATO level switch arrangement with a backup switch, just to better sleep at night.

Also, very handy, I connected these solenoids to regular power plug switches from a Home Improvement store.
That means if I want to turn off the refilling of this reservoir any time, I just switch off the solenoids.

Also an important consideration, this reservoir (only 10 Gallon at the moment) is usually full within a few hours.
When you have read the description of the “mixing station operation”, you will better understand the following.

When the water is mixed and became Saltwater, it’s been pumped into the SW reservoir. Then it usually takes a few days for new RODI water to be needed. Since the reservoir is empty the solenoids would be activated and being unnecessarily used, just try to avoid this via my switch design. Solenoids are electric magnets, they wear out, becoming hot, reduced lifetime and increased failure rate etc.

 

[PSXerholic]

Part 2: THE SALTWATER MIXING STATION



So as you can see on the pictures and Video, there are 2 reservoirs.

My 9 year old daughter was so kind to label the reservoirs for us.
She is doing a 1 Jar WC every day on her 2.5G Nano tank, J
Another reason for having this system, you always have “some” Saltwater available.

Left – RODI/Saltwater mixing reservoir
I explained the filling already above, so I will skip this here.
As soon this reservoir is filled with RODI water, the solenoids are turned off automatically.
At this point, I usually turn off the solenoids, since I need new water in a few days only.

I have a MAG 9.5 installed at the bottom which is connected to another Power plug switch, which gives me the ease of turning this pump on and off with a click.

So there are two valves, one on the left is for recirculation within the mixing reservoir. I close it a lil bit to give pump a lil bit of restriction so it’s not that noisy. With the right angle of closing slightly, you won’t hear that pump.

I keep this valve always in this position even when I pump the Saltwater into the Saltwater reservoir on the right.

A predefined amount of Salt will be poured in as soon the pump is running. I use a Glass Jar with a line for the amount of salt that fit the required specific gravity I’m targeting for.

So when mixing is complete after 8 hours (more or less), and the Saltwater is ready, I open the other valve and it takes about 30 seconds to fill up the Saltwater reservoir on the right side.

I did not attach anything on the suction of the pump! That ensures, when the right Saltwater reservoir is filled and the valve is closed, the pump starts to pulling air and that's the point where I just close the second valve and then I turn the pump off. There will be a bit off backflow into the mixing reservoir, which is useful since it keeps the remaining water level in this reservoir high enough, so that the pump is primed and will pump water next time the pump is turned on.

Well this reservoir is nearly empty now except the rest water, which I haven’t had issues with it, keepin it in there for a few days only.

The comparable small (10G each) reservoirs will ensure a complete turnover rate of nearly 100% every 3-4 days, so there is not much of chance of fouling water.

I have seen people with 50Gallon reservoirs and it turned into issues when that water was standing in the reservoirs over a longer period of time until being used! Later more.

Right – RODI/Saltwater mixing reservoir
Well this is easy, when it’s full it’s full!

Currently I have to watch when the min level is reached, but for future I will have (already on my workbench) a Switch that I need to wire to my Control system telling me when this reservoir has reached 1/6 of the reservoir capacity. Since the entire setup is in the laundry room which is behind the Tank (with a wall between, lol), I walk by often and can easily see the level.

I start the preparation for new water/mixing when the SW reservoir is half empty.

In case I run the reservoir empty, I have a trick to re-prime the WC-System pump basically automatically, later more.

 

[PSXerholic]

Part 3: THE SALTWATER CHANGE SYSTEM



This system consists of actually only two pumps, connected to the Aquarium control system, which each pump is on a separate timer (Important).

I have used 12VDC RODI Booster pumps.
Booster pumps provide a lot of pressure and head, to overcome the pressure loss of the RODI tubing.

They don’t have a lot of suction capacity so it is important to have the pumps not too far away from the location of suction. I would not exceed 4 feet suction side tubing.

Also compared to DOS pumps, there is no tubing that can fail and mess up the entire house and tank.

If the internal parts of the booster pump fail, the pump will just not pump!

Also they are heavy duty service and are cheap compared to other pumps, as well consistent in flow.

a. Waste Water Pump

The Waste water pump is located down in the stand and the suction tubing end is located in the last return chamber of the sump, which is assumed the cleanest spot.

Keep the suction tube long enough to get it out of the sump and handy for maintenance, it needs, depending on water quality maybe a once a year, or more often a cleaning interval with a bottle of Hydrogen peroxide, which you won’t like to have in the sump by accident!

The discharge tube goes wherever, in my case it’s going to the laundry washing machine drain, where also the RODI unit waste water line is routed to as well (above water surface to avoid clogging by bacteria).

This pump is on a separate timer for multiple purpose:

- Setup of the feed and water setup individual, since due to the pressure drop and other parameter, the 2 pumps will run different periods of time in order to transport the same amount of water.
- Maintenance and flushing with cleaning fluid (Hydrogen peroxide, chlorine, vinegar)
- You can lower your salinity level by taking off manually water from the tank via the Control system, while the Top Off system will feed RODI water. All from the PC J
- There was something else, but I forgot what it was, oh yeah priming the Fresh saltwater pump (see next)

What is not shown and not currently installed is another single solenoid (on the same power plug as the booster pump), right next to the pump, that will prevent any potential slow backflow or flow in general in case the pump is off for a longer period of time, since Booster pumps do not hold water tightly. Since I do run hourly the system with a small amout of water, this doesn’t happen really.

Anyways, if I would like to turn off the WCS system for a few days, priming this pump would be a pain due to accessibility, therefore I prefer a solenoid here!

b. Fresh Salt Water Pump
Same requirements here as on the Waste water pump.

In my pictures you can see that this pump has already a single solenoid installed to prevent flow in case the pump is off, for a very good reason.

The discharge side of the FSW (Freshsaltwater) pump is routed into the stand and then into the Main Aquarium return line!!! So the fresh saltwater is being mixed into the Water stream coming from the sump.

That makes an awesome ratio of dilution with the water column. That means the sh!tty argument from some people, not to take out and feed water at the same time, since you will waste fresh saltwater does not really apply, since the factor of loosing fresh saltwater is so unbelievable small!!!

Well, due to this fact of the installation, the FSW booster pump will see backpressure from the Main Pump return line, therefore the solenoid, to avoid filling the Saltwater reservoir with Tank water.

Also, in case you run the Saltwater reservoir dry, due to no attention, which occasionally happens to me as well, I just need to pull off the Booster pump plug, but keep the solenoid connected, and go manually turn on the booster pump from the Aquarium controller, and wait for the tank water raising in the Saltwater reservoir on the right side. After that go back to normal and the pump will work again with ease, since it is now primed with water.

The suction tube of the fesh saltwater pump I sticked through a pipe to keep it in position.

 

[PSXerholic]

Part 4: THE SALTWATER CHANGE SYSTEM CALIBRATION



All right, in order to synchronize the system and figure out the timing, I found the following procedure most useful and precise.

Watch out, if available, the Salinity curve on the APEX, or measure daily for a few days the specific gravity of the saltwater to ensure you did no MFU, lol.

Keep main pumps going.

Turn off skimmer

Turn off other auxiliary pumps as long they are off the main return line system

Turn off the ATO system plug

Let the tank run for 5-10 minutes to adjust the sump level to the equipment that is being turned off

Stick a tape outside the sump and mark the water line precisely

Start the waste water pump for the desired time (1-2 minutes or so) and water amount you want to change (ideally for an hourly change, to keep the tank stability very high)

Use full minutes for ease of use.

Then keep off the waste water pump and start the FSW pump.

Stop the time it needs to refill back to the water line mark.

As more precise as better. I go to the next 10 seconds which is precise enough in my case.

I do not see a real salinity swing, since there are so many other factors affecting the salinity anyways.


IMPORTANT : The FSW time “will be” and should be less than the waste water timer.

That is important, to ensure the ATO top off water system will not turn on, every time the WCS sytem does perform a change.

If that is not the case, just install some more tubing on the waste water line at the end and coil it up to increase the pressure drop in the line which will result in less flow of the waste water pump!





That’s it, Yall enjoy fixin Yalls tanks, lol.

I will give some more thoughts and things to watch out for when using a WCS in a few hours.

Let me know if there are still questions open, and your feedback is appreciated!!!

 

[PSXerholic]

Part 5: THE SALTWATER CHANGE SYSTEM – General advise and thoughts when using it

After I explained the configuration of my WCS in detail, here some other things that shall be considered.

A well functioning Reef system has one important requirement met, which is stability.

Typically a weekly WC is good, it brings in new macro elements and minerals you cannot measure or dose.

But the “bad” thing is on a weekly or biweekly large change is that it is messing up your water chemistry at this time. CA, ALK, MG, Iodine, Potassium, Strontium and many other important elements are going to be replaced instantly and being replenished until the next water change, even the ones that are dosed.
That is in fact sort of a swing on all elements.

When you start using a WCS, make sure to turn down dosing a bit to avoid overdosing, which happened to me as well. Do not underestimate that.


So as more frequent you do the WC, hourly, every 4 hours, once a day……….. as better for the tank.

Same to dosing, I dose my solutions that are on dosing pumps on an hourly basis to have the best possible stability in the tank. As less fluctuations as better.


Since you might decide to apply a WCS, use its opportunity and do the hourly WC, since it does not cost any extra time or effort!!! Free stability.

You will see the difference on the APEX ORP probes if you have one. The ORP curve becomes much smoother over the time.


Another aspect is you will need less dosing of macro elements and minerals, since consumption will be more stable and you automatically do more water replacements because WC is so easy.
In my system set up I always have some Saltwater and some RODI water available.
You can do adjust the amount of WC per day, or even larger water changes manually!!!
You can lower your salinity level by taking off manually water from the tank via the Control system, while the Top Off system will feed RODI water. All from the PC J

The comparable small (10G each) reservoirs will ensure a complete turnover rate of nearly 100% every 3-4 days, so there is not much of chance of fouling water.
I have seen people with 50Gallon reservoirs and it turned into issues when that water was standing in the reservoirs over a longer period of time until being used.
This is due to the fact of potential chemicals leeching back into the water while bacteria in the water are building up.
Calcification and therefore loss of elements in large reservoirs!


Cost and what you need:

I have not tracked cost exactly, but here is what you can expect you will need, as well, you can do the system in steps.

1 RODI system

1 Aquarium control system with 2 empty spots

6 Solenoids

2 ATO Top off switches

2 Booster RODI pumps

1 Mixing pump

Plenty of tubing/fittings and piping

Switches, Power bars and extension cables

Reservoirs

Bladder type water tank



All right, that’s it so far for now, nothing else I can think of that I missed.



Happy Reefing.

 

[ReefCartel]

Awesome

 

[reefwiser]

What these systems need is s batching flow meter. We used these at my work to add ingredients to a batch of mix for making food products. You set how many ounces or gallons and it turns on and off a pump. No guessing then if you pumped the correct amount in and out of the system.
https://www.google.com/search?q=bat...ome..69i57&sourceid=chrome&es_sm=122&ie=UTF-8

 

[PSXerholic]

Awesome

THX man, hope it's helpful.

 

[PSXerholic]

What these systems need is s batching flow meter. We used these at my work to add ingredients to a batch of mix for making food products. You set how many ounces or gallons and it turns on and off a pump. No guessing then if you pumped the correct amount in and out of the system.
https://www.google.com/search?q=bat...ome..69i57&sourceid=chrome&es_sm=122&ie=UTF-8

Part 4 explains the calibration, that's more then sufficient to time and setup the water replacement amount.
No real need for metering, but not a bad thing to use if available.
But not mandatory. Works great without it.

-Andre

 

[reefwiser]

Most don't realise that there is a solution to the problem.

 

[PSXerholic]

Most don't realise that there is a solution to the problem.

What I see that sometimes people do forget the pressure drop in system, and measure the water flow at the pump and then reconnecting 2 miles of RODI tubing and wondering after then that is does not work, lol.

 

[revhtree Verified Admin]

Thanks for sharing!

 

[d2mini]

What these systems need is s batching flow meter. We used these at my work to add ingredients to a batch of mix for making food products. You set how many ounces or gallons and it turns on and off a pump. No guessing then if you pumped the correct amount in and out of the system.
https://www.google.com/search?q=bat...ome..69i57&sourceid=chrome&es_sm=122&ie=UTF-8

The AWC programming that comes standard within the GHL Profilux sofware utilizes level sensors in the sump.
Upon start up it disables ATO completely. Then turns on the pump that sucks the water out. Once the water level reaches the lower sensor, it turns it off and turns on the other pump that starts pumping new saltwater back in. Once the level gets back up to the upper sensor (which also controls ATO) it turns it off, and resumes ATO functionality. This way, the same exact amount of water that was removed is replaced.

 

[mcs]

Thank you for the information

 

[PSXerholic]

Thanks for sharing!

@revhtree , thx a lot !
Can you PM me Boss?!?
I have an issue I need to talk to you about. Appreciated!!!

 

[PSXerholic]

Here as well the You tube link of the Video.