Back and forth on live rock or dry rock

[Ashish Patel]

Dry rock has to become live one way or another so never understand how ppl use 100% dryrock and no find a need to seed it with LR. Your gonna end up seeding it overtime with LPS base, or snail shells anyways. May aswell do it early one and save yourself the hassle of getting dry rock problems.

 

[Labora]

Can't you just put in a frag sized live rock next to your dry rock to get all the bacteria?

 

[ReefBeta]

I have no issue using low alk hydraulic cement on items that stay submerged. It takes longer to cure, but cures just fine.

Which one did you use?

 

[Eagle_Steve]

Which one did you use?

Leak Stopper Hydraulic Cement

Stop water leaks quickly with Hydraulic Cement Leak Stopper, a high-strength, rapid-setting hydraulic cement for masonry wall and concrete leak repair.

www.sakrete.com

And to correct my previous comment, it ph and not alk. Had a brain fart there.

this cement typically mixes at about 10, I use RODI water which has been stored inside my house. It has a ph of 5.5-6. When mixed up, the ph of the mix is about 8.4-8.6. Add that to water to cure with a ph of 8 or so and the ph has never gone above 8.2.

My dad and I used to make shaped live rock years ago from Florida rock (before normal people were prohibited from harvesting) we smashed to bits and cemented back together. We always cured the rock in his 125 and it never hurt a thing.

Here is a tank we did for my sister that was TB rock (2 pieces) some of my dads rock crushed up and some of my rubble crushed up. It cured in tank and no issues to date from here tank. Never had an ammonia spike, or anything. Just went in there and so did everything else. The heart rock is all the bits pressed into that shape using the cement and then misted for about 10 minutes. After 10 minutes it was together enough to move.
Like previously stated, a lot more work, but live rock can be used.

Ignore the angry Kenya trees, they were just plopped in after an hour ride from my house lol.

 

[LRT]

Seen this thread again today and thought I'd throw down a few pictures as I just got done thoroughly cleaning a cpl tables I decided to turn into dry/rock sand gardens for my mushrooms.
Needless to say as soon as I get the time I'm tearing it all back out. Starting over with crushed live rock and rebooting.
Keep in mind this is same system. 200 lbs of gulf live rock and 100 lbs of walt smith fiji in my res.
Notice how algae wont grow on live rock.
Not even in tray under full lamp

Now check out the tables i used crushed coral and sand. I just cleaned the tables they look like they already need to be cleaned again!
Also notice in the tables i used the crushed coral i also crushed up some live rock and algae does not grow on it.
Long story short. If you can use live rock. Or seed dry rock but understand your in for a long haul waiting for the dry to become seeded enough for the stability your looking for.

 

[Tired]

You don't have to get all the rock for your scape as live. You could order 20 pounds from KP and get a really great start to your biodiversity, for not that much money in the grand scheme of things. More live is better, but some live and mostly dry works just fine.

 

[Snoopdog]

Can't you just put in a frag sized live rock next to your dry rock to get all the bacteria?

Sure but it takes a magnitude longer. The more pounds of live rock you have, the higher the rate of diversity.

 

[Tired]

Also, the bigger the rock is, the more likely it is to have things on it. You aren't likely to get, say, micro brittles and copepods and bristleworms and feather dusters and sponges and so on, off of one pebble worth of rock. If you do, you'll probably just get one or two, at best.

 

[Creggers]

I was having the same internal struggle when I put together my new tank, and its still very much new so I cannot comment on long term (we're actually on day two right now LOL) but I can say that after much research I decided to go with the live rock.

A lot of the benefits have already been stated, so I wont bother repeating them. What I will say is a lot of the big vocal folks in favor of dry rock sell it on their websites. If you watch some of the videos by BRS or Marinedepot, they use a lot of scare tactics to drive people towards dependence on adding new technology to make up for the lack of biodiversity... Algae problem? Here's a scrubber. Need microfauna? Here's a hotel and a subscription to have it delivered monthly... At the end of the day I have no doubt you can be successful with dry rock, I think it requires a lot more work, technology, and money.

On the flip side, KP aquatics, TBS, and others rely on word of mouth to speak the benefits of their products - mainly because their products sell themselves if you're willing to accept some of the minor risks.

 

[LRT]

Also, the bigger the rock is, the more likely it is to have things on it. You aren't likely to get, say, micro brittles and copepods and bristleworms and feather dusters and sponges and so on, off of one pebble worth of rock. If you do, you'll probably just get one or two, at best.

Depends what you order and where you order it from. I posted a picture of a 2.5' gorgorian that came attached to a softball size piece of rock that had a tennis ball sized clam on it. If you order the Premium or Primo rock from gulfliverock you can most definitely expect all of the above.

 

[Ashish Patel]

Never new about Kp Aquatics, seems like good LR minus the crazy prices. However, its worth it aslong as its for seeding. I have a LFS which has a bunch of old tanks with sumps full of LR covered with sponges, I probably just take some cash there and ask the owner to sell me a few pieces. they love cash. Too bad I can't use my current LR because my system has aiptasia, One pest I really hate dealing with!

 

[t5Nitro]

Never new about Kp Aquatics, seems like good LR minus the crazy prices. However, its worth it aslong as its for seeding. I have a LFS which has a bunch of old tanks with sumps full of LR covered with sponges, I probably just take some cash there and ask the owner to sell me a few pieces. they love cash. Too bad I can't use my current LR because my system has aiptasia, One pest I really hate dealing with!

These are very much the prices of real fiji LR back in the day at around 10$ per pound so I don't think the price is necessarily crazy.

 

[jeffrey750750]

Depends what you order and where you order it from. I posted a picture of a 2.5' gorgorian that came attached to a softball size piece of rock that had a tennis ball sized clam on it. If you order the Premium or Primo rock from gulfliverock you can most definitely expect all of the above.

Thank you for mentioning gulfliverock, I haven't seen that one. 100lbs primo for 500 bucks is a great price. I'm in Michigan though so shipping looks to be 3 days unless picked up from the airport

 

[LRT]

Thank you for mentioning gulfliverock, I haven't seen that one. 100lbs primo for 500 bucks is a great price. I'm in Michigan though so shipping looks to be 3 days unless picked up from the airport

I'd make those arrangements for sure if possible.

 

[Snoopdog]

What I will say is a lot of the big vocal folks in favor of dry rock sell it on their websites. If you watch some of the videos by BRS or Marinedepot, they use a lot of scare tactics to drive people towards dependence on adding new technology to make up for the lack of biodiversity... Algae problem?

They are in the business of making money, in the shroud of giving a rat's **** about your tank and success.

 

[Snoopdog]

A lot of the benefits have already been stated, so I wont bother repeating them. What I will say is a lot of the big vocal folks in favor of dry rock sell it on their websites. If you watch some of the videos by BRS or Marinedepot, they use a lot of scare tactics to drive people towards dependence on adding new technology to make up for the lack of biodiversity...

Don't get me started on "things in a bottle". What is even worse when you have companies selling you copepods or chaeto for over $40. Find some local reefer and grab chaeto out of their sump.

 

[Creggers]

Don't get me started on "things in a bottle". What is even worse when you have companies selling you copepods or chaeto for over $40. Find some local reefer and grab chaeto out of their sump.

I got Chaeto from KP for $7. Can't believe how much people charge for it considering mines already showing growth after only two days in the system..

 

[Snoopdog]

I got Chaeto from KP for $7. Can't believe how much people charge for it considering mines already showing growth after only two days in the system..

Hell I wish I had known that, I would have gotten him to throw me some in my shipment.

 

[galantra]

Adding my input had hardly no issues with live ocean rock vs dry rock. I been debating on buying some live ocean rock to add to my new setup to help.
But would live ocean sand do the same thing live rock? Ocean direct is live sand from the ocean floor had anyone tried this out with good results?

 

[Jax15]

If you've done all live rock before, stick with it. You'll be shocked and disappointed at how much longer it would tank for your tank to get the same results with dry. It works, and makes for a clean tank, but takes a long time.