Back at it! Peroxide vrs cyanobacteria
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/sigh
http://journal.frontiersin.org/article/10.3389/fmicb.2015.00714/full
your turn
i hope the universities are credible enough to your liking.
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Russ that's neat had not seen that. It's almost as if you edited the title of the work to make it better match the reflection of the thread here
Tehreefer
It's important for people to always challenge any claim so that over claims are filtered out, but posts here also indicate it helped
That's a non confrontational assessment but it's meant to not exclude clear successes mentioned here
If nobody is claiming to fix all cyano tanks and simply many are helped, and no unpredicted losses occurred during an easy trial and TW is reflecting on those collections I don't see where over claiming has occurred.
So much about peroxide online is the extreme
it never works
it kills all bacteria that are good
it cures anything, just dump in tank
to me it seems rational to invite a bunch of people to post in a thread and try and sift through for patterns
Even if we are skeptical about any aspect one cannot have a bad reaction to a bunch of free data to sift and remark upon, including the successes. Skeptics keep important checks and balances.
Tehreefer
It's important for people to always challenge any claim so that over claims are filtered out, but posts here also indicate it helped
That's a non confrontational assessment but it's meant to not exclude clear successes mentioned here
If nobody is claiming to fix all cyano tanks and simply many are helped, and no unpredicted losses occurred during an easy trial and TW is reflecting on those collections I don't see where over claiming has occurred.
So much about peroxide online is the extreme
it never works
it kills all bacteria that are good
it cures anything, just dump in tank
to me it seems rational to invite a bunch of people to post in a thread and try and sift through for patterns
Even if we are skeptical about any aspect one cannot have a bad reaction to a bunch of free data to sift and remark upon, including the successes. Skeptics keep important checks and balances.
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oh man! finally an answer from a question 6-9 months ago.
i asked what the half life of h202 was when i was treating dinos and got some wild answers like 48 hours (which is not what i observed) - more like 4-5 hours.
anyway...
http://research-repository.uwa.edu....21dc-7144-40f6-b0da-c4e4ea918e56)/export.html
couple experiments here...
2.3 and 4.5 hour half life.
i asked what the half life of h202 was when i was treating dinos and got some wild answers like 48 hours (which is not what i observed) - more like 4-5 hours.
anyway...
http://research-repository.uwa.edu....21dc-7144-40f6-b0da-c4e4ea918e56)/export.html
couple experiments here...
2.3 and 4.5 hour half life.
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twilliard
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http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22112924
Here is a good one guys.
Yes Russ the half life is short which has been provided my members ORP Apex results
Here is a good one guys.
Yes Russ the half life is short which has been provided my members ORP Apex results
ok. ok.
So we have evidence it works in waste water, lakes, and other fresh water. Playing devil's advocate... we can just put the final nail in the coffin and call it day.
http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0061051
gah im feeling like Brandon after his posts years ago
Squamosa
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fab
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My read of this is not that the half-life of H2O2 is 2.3 to 4.5 hours. Rather that 2.3 hours is the half-life of the cyanobacteria population in the test and 4.5 hours for the total phytoplankton in the test, at the dosage level tested.
The H2O2 depletion rate was not mentioned in exponential terms. Rather it was only said to have totally broken down within 48 hours. I do agree that you are right that H2O2 degrades quite rapidly but I do not know when it has fallen to 50% of its original dosage concentration. Does anyone know whether H2O2 breaks down at exponential rates or at linear rates?
How about looking these references articles again and see if you agree.
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It may have a fast rate of decay, but this is also interesting to me
good find
ime 4 hours and zoas open again. regardless the doseage.
dont have time to read indepth. just skimmed here at work. (speaking of which) i got a meeting.
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twilliard
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I am basing dose based on ORP as this may be the only negative I can see within a marine tank.
In my opinion we don't want to keep ORP low for extended amounts of time.
In my opinion we don't want to keep ORP low for extended amounts of time.
@twilliard
Do you anticipate that peroxide will be a one time regimen or do you think it is likely there will be reoccurrences of Cyanobacteria requiring retreatment.
Do you have any thoughts on what parameters favor a cyano outbreak
(Some people report amino acids being causative/contributory and yet there are lots of reefers who routinely dose amino acids without outbreaks)
Do you have any thoughts if you are achieving 100% kill of the cyano or just enough suppression to allow for more favorable critters to flourish
Will you ultimately suggest a regimen of dose and duration of treatment
It appears you have gathered quite a bit of information, kudos to your efforts
Do you anticipate that peroxide will be a one time regimen or do you think it is likely there will be reoccurrences of Cyanobacteria requiring retreatment.
Do you have any thoughts on what parameters favor a cyano outbreak
(Some people report amino acids being causative/contributory and yet there are lots of reefers who routinely dose amino acids without outbreaks)
Do you have any thoughts if you are achieving 100% kill of the cyano or just enough suppression to allow for more favorable critters to flourish
Will you ultimately suggest a regimen of dose and duration of treatment
It appears you have gathered quite a bit of information, kudos to your efforts
Squamosa
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Agreed, they are referring to decay rates of cyano, chlorophytes, cryptophytes and diatoms.
This paper might yield more info on H2O2 decay rates:
Dra´bkova´, M.; Admiraal, W.; Marsa´lek, B. Combined exposure
to hydrogen peroxide and light: Selective effects on cyanobacteria,
green algae, and diatoms. Environ. Sci. Technol. 2007, 41
(1), 309–314.
I have yet to read this!
fab
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This, too, could be incorporated as an important factor in an ORP based automated dosing control technique.
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twilliard
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Thank you!
Here in my controlled work it is a 100% kill rate.
In my own tank which was having a huge outbreak I feel it was 100% successful
I have been culturing in a 2.5g tank as my tank is clear of it.
I too feel it may be related to overdosing of AA's as that is what I did at the beginning of the year. I am still exploring the import methods of cyanobacteria into aquariums. It is a tough one. Some say it's there all the time which I disagree with.
Yes I feel I have a firm plan of h2o2 amount, times and precautions.
fab
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I found the paper in an online digital library, but I do not have access privileges to it. Do you have a non-proprietary link to the article?
BTW, the article you provided on oxidative stress is good. Maybe it points us to what we need to consider for long term, perhaps infrequent and lower dosage level, maintenance dosing after having completed a round of riddance dosing.
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Squamosa
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This may have a ring of truth to it
Three hundred and fifty five days of the year I never see it in my tank and then, one water parameter goes out through AA dosing, nutrient spikes, a light change my eyes have not picked up, too much carbon dosing e.t.c. and boom, there's some funky colour cyano on a patch of rock that always seems to disappear again after a week or so
fab
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WRT barring Cyanobacteria from entry, does anyone know whether cyanobacteria should be expectable in RODI water that was processed from 'city' water? ...Flint water excluded!
If so, would a dose of H2O2 on our topoff water and our new saltwater prior to putting it on our display tanks be a good border patrol agent to prevent illegal entry, ab initio? The H2O2 would degrade to very low levels within hours, mostly gone overnight before using the 'new' water.
...and what about a few passes through a germicidal UV to blast away at their DNA before introduction into our display tanks?
If so, would a dose of H2O2 on our topoff water and our new saltwater prior to putting it on our display tanks be a good border patrol agent to prevent illegal entry, ab initio? The H2O2 would degrade to very low levels within hours, mostly gone overnight before using the 'new' water.
...and what about a few passes through a germicidal UV to blast away at their DNA before introduction into our display tanks?
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bayondai
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I must have had spirulina too. I dosed peroxide once a day for 7 days and then twice a day for another 7 days with no change. I used chemiclean 2 days ago and it is gone. It usually shows up almost every season change which is kind of weird or probably just a coincidence.
Squamosa
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I have the paper, but it doesn't really elaborate on H2O2 decay rates.
Why do scientists still put unsubstantiated statements of fact into their papers, I would have my students going back out there, finding a reference for this!
Still a decent read if you want me to email the paper to you?
Cheers
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