bacteria dosing

[ddc0715]

do you dose more than one bacteria as a part of your dosing routine and if so what do you dose and how often.. i dose biodigest bi weekly and dr tims eco balance weekly.

some say bacteria dosing is BS...have not found the scienc to support that BS Claim. but alot of science on the benifits.. what say yall?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Unless you have a specific pest that you are trying to displace with added bacteria (usually dinos or cyano), I see no reason to dose bottled bacteria to an established reef tank.

 

[Boogieman]

I am realitively new coming on 2 years and started with a sterile tank . Sand and carib sea life rock.
I understand you said established . But if you have no real live rock .... where would the bacteria come from if not added from a bottle, mud or sand.

And is diversity not benefical?

 

[ddc0715]

if not usling live rock then you must get it fro a bottle.. the topic im deabateing is dosing bacteria in a 4-5 year old tank or part of the regular dosing routine

 

[Mr. Mojo Rising]

once you add the bacteria from the bottle, isn't it in the tank already? What benefit to dose it regularly if its in the tank already? Bacteria doesn't get "used up", does it? I'm genuinely asking.

 

[biom]

I am realitively new coming on 2 years and started with a sterile tank . Sand and carib sea life rock.
I understand you said established . But if you have no real live rock .... where would the bacteria come from if not added from a bottle, mud or sand.

And is diversity not benefical?

Not to forget we are adding bacteria with fish, frags, snails and every creature we are putting in our tank. You'll be surprised how many bacteria strains could be found both in salt water, fresh water and soil. Not speaking how far from the ocean bacteria could be spread by winds. The salt you are using to prepare salt water contains lots of bacteria, especially salts which are produced using salt from salinas (like Red Sea salt)

Diversity is always beneficial but IMO there is no need this diversity to come out from a bottle. Keeping good water parameters and nutrients available will ensure rich enough bacterial diversity to keep pests at a bay not allowing them to dominate.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I am realitively new coming on 2 years and started with a sterile tank . Sand and carib sea life rock.
I understand you said established . But if you have no real live rock .... where would the bacteria come from if not added from a bottle, mud or sand.

And is diversity not benefical?

Diversity is not, buy itself, beneficial (IMO). Is diversity of bacteria in your GI tract beneficial? Depends, of course, on which bacteria. A few of the right ones beats a ton of wrong ones.

Adding the same product every day may also be decreasing diversity, not increasing it.

A tank that is 2 years old got lots of bacteria from all sorts of things you added, such as fish, inverts, corals, etc.

Ask yourself what problem you are trying to solve by adding bacteria.

 

[biom]

Sorry Randy but this is how ChatGPT answered your question:

"Is diversity of bacteria in your GI tract beneficial?"

ChatGPT: "Yes, diversity of bacteria in the gastrointestinal (GI) tract is generally considered beneficial. The human gut is home to trillions of microorganisms, including bacteria, viruses, fungi, and other microbes, collectively known as the gut microbiota. The gut microbiota plays an important role in human health, influencing many aspects of our physiology, including metabolism, immunity, and even behavior.
Research suggests that a diverse gut microbiota is associated with better health outcomes. In contrast, a less diverse gut microbiota has been linked to various health problems, such as inflammatory bowel disease, obesity, and even mental health disorders.
Therefore, promoting diversity of bacteria in the GI tract is an important aspect of maintaining good gut health. This can be achieved through a balanced and varied diet, including a variety of whole foods and fiber-rich plant foods, as well as avoiding unnecessary antibiotics and other factors that may disrupt the gut microbiota."

LoL I tend to agree for first time with him/her/them

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Ok, lol

my point is that more diverse is not always better because it depends on what comprises that diversity.

Start with normal gi biome and add various pathogens. Biodiversity rises, as does diarrhea. lol

 

[biom]

lol Start with GI tract with only 2 strains of bacteria, add various pathogens and diarrhea will be the least concern.

Because if there are millions strains of bacteria in the GI tract the chance there is at least one that can outcompete the added pathogens is million times bigger than if you have only two strains of bacteria this is how diversity works.

 

[bushdoc]

Ok, lol

my point is that more diverse is not always better because it depends on what comprises that diversity.

Start with normal gi biome and add various pathogens. Biodiversity rises, as does diarrhea. lol

“Biodiversity rises, as does diarrhea. lol”
On, the contrary , most of diarrhea is viral, but if it is bacterial it is usually due to a single pathogen, like pathogenic strains of E. coli which dominates Your gut.

 

[ReefGeezer]

some say bacteria dosing is BS...have not found the scienc to support that BS Claim. but alot of science on the benifits.. what say yall?

"Biodiversity" has been a marketing buzz word for the marketing of bottles of bacteriological magic elixir for a while now. Maybe a little critical thinking would help with the OP's question...

Ask yourself how many different strains of bacteria can exist in a space that have the exact same requirements.

Ask yourself if a relatively few new bacteria can outcompete the multitudes of bacteria that constitute an established strain of bacteria having the same requirements.

Ask yourself if the environment's bacteriological population determines the biome of individual corals.

Ask yourself why, if bacteria are pervasive, would you need to add them from a bottle.

Biodiversity is about the whole of the organisms occupying the reef tank, simple and complex. Yes bacteria play a part, but other more complex organisms that we can control are more important.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

lol Start with GI tract with only 2 strains of bacteria, add various pathogens and diarrhea will be the least concern.

Because if there are millions strains of bacteria in the GI tract the chance there is at least one that can outcompete the added pathogens is million times bigger than if you have only two strains of bacteria this is how diversity works.

Ok, I am aware of issues such as post antibiotic cryptosporidium. I’ve worked on teams to treat such infections.

I am not meaning to claim that numbers and types of bacteria are not important in either reefs or gi tracts.

My intended point is that if you take a given reef tank, and add additional types of bacteria in an effort to increase biodiversity, there may be no improvement in any observable aspect of that aquarium.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

“Biodiversity rises, as does diarrhea. lol”
On, the contrary , most of diarrhea is viral, but if it is bacterial it is usually due to a single pathogen, like pathogenic strains of E. coli which dominates Your gut.

Yes, I understand. My point was just that taking a normal gut and adding bacteria not already there does not always give a beneficial outcome.

 

[Dan_P]

do you dose more than one bacteria as a part of your dosing routine and if so what do you dose and how often.. i dose biodigest bi weekly and dr tims eco balance weekly.

some say bacteria dosing is BS...have not found the scienc to support that BS Claim. but alot of science on the benifits.. what say yall?

Aquarium probiotics seems like unsubstantiated nonsense. Save your money, your aquarium has plenty of bacteria.

 

[biom]

Ok, I am aware of issues such as post antibiotic cryptosporidium. I’ve worked on teams to treat such infections.

I am not meaning to claim that numbers and types of bacteria are not important in either reefs or gi tracts.

My intended point is that if you take a given reef tank, and add additional types of bacteria in an effort to increase biodiversity, there may be no improvement in any observable aspect of that aquarium.

Ok, I am also not saying bacteria in a bottle is the silver bullet for all reefing problems, not at all.

I really dont understand this:
1. I have a problem with detritus and organics accumulation in my tank and want to remove it because I am are afraid of cyano bloom. I am buying "Magic Bacteria" in the "Magic bottle" wich they say will consume all the organics accumulated in my tank. Ok for now, that is what bacteria actually do.
2. But this detritus and organics covering my rocks and sand is actually mostly bacteria and small part uneaten hard to digest compounds. Ok maybe they found this "Magic bacteria" that will eat all the hard to digest stuff in my tank and this bacteria is so rare and so special that never ended in my tank by natural way. Ok I accept that too.
3. But they say I should actually dose this bacteria on regular basis to see significant results. At this point they started losing me. I'm introducing a bacteria that will consume large amount of organics that the other bacteria in my tank are not capable to digest i.e. esure this magic bacteria with plenty of food but then I should dose this magic every week??? Why??? My guess:
a) Because Magic bacteria will only eat but not capable to reproduce??? Never heard about such a bacteria, if environment is good enough for bacteria to eat they will reproduce too.
b) Because Magic bacteria will eat all the organics and then will die of starvation? Not actually possible for a bacteria in environment which is not sterile.
c) Because this Magic bacteria needs other special nutrients (carbon sources) and trace elements to consume this hard to digest stuff? And this nutrients are in the Magic bottle? I think this is quite possible and actually @taricha prove it with his brilliant experiments with Waste away.

And then the question is: Do we need a Magic bacteria in this Magic bottle, I think the answer is "No" I think we already have the magic bacteria in our tanks, we just need this carbon source or nutrients in the Magic bottle that will help bacteria to consume this hard to digest stuff.

Some of the producers they advertise their products as bacteria but it is actually only a carbon source, the other actually put some bacteria in their products, but the main active component is the carbon source in the media. And almost none of them is actually saying which is the strain of bacteria or which is the carbon source in the media.

I intended to call this "Magic bacteria" MB for short but found out there is such product already lol

 

[ddc0715]

I would like to use an example to bring this back down to a simpler level (verbaly speaking) and i am going to be blunt and direct. im a federal mediator so being direct and blunt is in my blood.

so for example- DR Tims eco balance aka a magic bacteria.. his and eco balance info is as follows

DrTim’s Aquatics is Dr. Timothy A. Hovanec who, for 17 years, was the Chief Science Officer of Aquaria Inc., the parent company of Marineland Aquarium Products, Aquarium Systems (Instant Ocean) and Perfecto Manufacturing.this one claims the following-

Eco-Balance Multi-Strained Probiotic Bacteria helps with the following:

• Maintains a balanced, healthy aquarium environment
• Blocks out unfriendly bacteria
• Promotes optimal water quality
• 100% Natural

The normal processes in an aquarium cause the system to become unbalanced, allowing unfriendly bacteria and algae to dominate and negatively impact water quality.
Eco-Balance uses friendly, 100% natural, probiotic bacteria to help reduce the numbers of bad bacteria in your aquarium. Use Eco-Balance on a weekly basis to restore and maintain a clean, balanced, healthy aquarium. Directions: Shake well before using, and add 10mL (1 capful) per 10 gallons of aquarium water once per week

based on the commentes i am reading in this thread. i have came to the following conclusion that most are calling BS dosing bacteria in a bottle in a multi year old tank and the following items below are nothing more than made up false marketing statements that can not be proven.

• Maintains a balanced, healthy aquarium environment. biome balance never needs to be maintained once seeded and aged but is needed based on your tanks problem. which is a confusing statement. its like someone telling you yes and no.
• Blocking out unfriendly bacteria is a lie. there is no such thing as BAD BACTERIA
• system becomes unbalanced, allowing unfriendly bacteria and algae, is a lie
• Dosing week or bio weekly is not needed in an established tank.
• The instructions or webinfo does not require you to "Ask yourself" 10 questions before buying or dosing.
• the need to restore the biodiversty is never required.

out of all the products i choose to dose and there is alot: jo jo's magic juice, betty bottoms bactira, hahahaha and so on.

i chose the one the was created by a 17 year Chief Science Officer of Aquaria Inc. which has videos of his about his proof and most still infer there is no need for these bacteria products...im sorry but i must ask

the idea that one should take or debate medical advice from a police officer (hobbyist) and not a doctor (Chief Science Officer) is an interresting subject with in itsself.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

out of all the products i choose to dose and there is alot: jo jo's magic juice, betty bottoms bactira, hahahaha and so on.

i chose the one the was created by a 17 year Chief Science Officer of Aquaria Inc. which has videos of his about his proof and most still infer there is no need for these bacteria products...im sorry but i must ask

the idea that one should take or debate medical advice from a police officer (hobbyist) and not a doctor (Chief Science Officer) is an interresting subject with in itsself.

lol, OK mediator.

How about a different take on the same question.

Would you take advice from a company selling something that is claimed to benefit reef tanks (perhaps with a video of success, but not necessarily side by side tanks with and without the product), or from hobbyists that have what many folks would consider to be highly successful reef tanks that many would want to emulate, that do not use any such products?

 

[ddc0715]

lol, OK mediator.

How about a different take on the same question.

Would you take advice from a company selling something that is claimed to benefit reef tanks (perhaps with a video of success, but not necessarily side by side tanks with and without the product), or from hobbyists that have what many folks would consider to be highly successful reef tanks that many would want to emulate, that do not use any such products?

touche. hhaha

 

[Boogieman]

Unless you have a specific pest that you are trying to displace with added bacteria (usually dinos or cyano), I see no reason to dose bottled bacteria to an established reef tank.

If