Bacteria in a bottle / Cycling new tank.

[stuart Kemshead]

Hi everyone.

A work colleague of mine recently underwent a tank upgrade.

The original tank was probably 20ltr with an under gravel filter and nsw. It contained 2 clown fish only.

The new tank is an Ocean free nano 96L. The primary filtration used is live rock and some media in chambers at rear of tank.

The lfs advised Seachem Stability and to add fish 24hrs later. At this stage the tank only contains 2 clown fish.

As i am unfamiliar with setting up a tank in this fashion i am unable to provide advice in regards to ammonia and nitrite toxicity as well as how the cycling process proceeds from here.

The tank parameters were tested today, 5 days after adding fish and levels look somewhat high to me.

I am unfamiliar with seachem test kits hence the pictures.

Any help with the following would be greatly appreciated.

1. At what level is ammonia fatal for fish. I am aware that any ammonia is damaging to fish health.

2. At what level is nitrite fatal for fish. Current levels i believe are 0.7 for nitrite and 20 for nitrate.

3. When using bacteria in bottle and adding fish is the tank just automatically cycled albeit with higher than desirable parameters.

4. Are water changes now best option to lower parameters or will that slow bacteria growth and even stall cycle?

5. How long can NSW be stored in a drum.

Thx.

 

[Katrina71]

I'm brand new, but ammonia should be 0

 

[stuart Kemshead]

I realize ammonia and nitrite should be zero and in my tank it always has been.

For that reason I am unsure how to advise someone who does not have zero ammonia and nitrite.

My instinct is to recommend a 50% water change but am unsure how that will affect bacteria levels at such an early stage of a tanks life.

 

[Katrina71]

There will be several people that can walk you through this. Let them wake up.

 

[roberthu526]

I think seachem stability requires seven days of dosing to cycle a new tank. It's not a one time thing.
You can use bio spiral or MB7 if you only want to does once. I would not do water change yet if your ammonia is zero. Nitrite is not fatal to marine fish at low concentration. Randy has an article stating this and I have had fish in water with over 5 ppm nitrite and they didn't seem to be bothered at all.

 

[stuart Kemshead]

So been doing some more reading on seachem stability, seachem prime and randy's articles on ammonia and nitrite.
The main issue to me seems to be the high ammonia with the immediate solution being to begin adding prime each day.
At what stage should water changes be done. I believe stability has been added to the tank for the last 6 - 7 days.
Lastly, if anyone who is familiar with seachem ammonia test kits would like to offer their opinion on the ammonia level in the pic i would be grateful.
Thx.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

So been doing some more reading on seachem stability, seachem prime and randy's articles on ammonia and nitrite.
The main issue to me seems to be the high ammonia with the immediate solution being to begin adding prime each day.
At what stage should water changes be done. I believe stability has been added to the tank for the last 6 - 7 days.
Lastly, if anyone who is familiar with seachem ammonia test kits would like to offer their opinion on the ammonia level in the pic i would be grateful.
Thx.

Yea. Dump more bacteria in there the ammonia is quite high.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

In general you begin the tank with no fish now a days. You may have heard of the shrimp method. This allows ammonia to develop and that also spurs the bacteria to grow.

If you fill a tank and have no ammonia source the bacteria dies. It has no food.

If you fill the tank and use dry rock there may over time bee enough organics to rot and provide an ammonia source. At this point you add bacteria to bolster the poulation.

Most wait for this all to happen over the course of about a month and then do water changes. Add snails (a bit of canary in the cage plus an ammonia addition) then the first fish.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

So been doing some more reading on seachem stability, seachem prime and randy's articles on ammonia and nitrite.
The main issue to me seems to be the high ammonia with the immediate solution being to begin adding prime each day.
At what stage should water changes be done. I believe stability has been added to the tank for the last 6 - 7 days.
Lastly, if anyone who is familiar with seachem ammonia test kits would like to offer their opinion on the ammonia level in the pic i would be grateful.
Thx.

And yes. Do a small water change and keep adding bacteria

 

[stuart Kemshead]

In general you begin the tank with no fish now a days. You may have heard of the shrimp method. This allows ammonia to develop and that also spurs the bacteria to grow.

If you fill a tank and have no ammonia source the bacteria dies. It has no food.

If you fill the tank and use dry rock there may over time bee enough organics to rot and provide an ammonia source. At this point you add bacteria to bolster the poulation.

Most wait for this all to happen over the course of about a month and then do water changes. Add snails (a bit of canary in the cage plus an ammonia addition) then the first fish.

The tank belongs to a friend and I am only focused atm on what to do moving forward.

 

[stuart Kemshead]

And yes. Do a small water change and keep adding bacteria

And prime ?

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

And prime ?

Yes. The prime an stability are both bacterias.

It's very nice of you help him out.

I suspect the live rock may have had some die off that is creating the ammonia.

If you have access to a product called dr Tims one and only or probidio it is a better blend of bacterias.

 

[stuart Kemshead]

Yes. The prime an stability are both bacterias.

Prime is a bacteria ?

I agree the live rock could certainly have had die off. I think it could have been out of water for some hours. Not to sure.

Tank has also been fed and the clowns had little interest in food so food was probably rotting in substrate..

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

The food will be quite minor in its addition to ammonia.

And yes prime is a bacteria.

It concern now with high ammonia is. Ammonia burns the fishes gills. It likeley the won't eat under those conditions.

 

[jeff williams]

Even adding bacteria you will probably see a small amout of total ammonia, free ammonia is what is dangerous to fish. .025 is were free ammonia starts to be an alarm. Your seachem kit will measure free ammonia.
Stability will work if dosed as the bottle reccomends however I would double the dose to start add 10 mls per 10 gal of water. Also add prime to control the ammonia you will not measure a decrease in total ammonia after dosing prime the ammonia will still be present it will just be in the nh4+ form this will give the stability an ammonia source to establish and it will be in a none harmful form for the fish.
Also nitrite will probably measure also because this bacteria has to establish after the ammonia is converted to nitrite. You can also dose prime for nitrite but it's really not needed because the chloride in the water prevents the absorbsion by the fish if the nitrite gets to elevated say 2 ppm do a WC just to help bring it down because nitrite at 5+ ppm can stall the cycle

 

[McArcher]

You might also advise your friend to find another lfs if they are giving him that kind of advice.

 

[stuart Kemshead]

You might also advise your friend to find another lfs if they are giving him that kind of advice.

I have spoken to the fish shop in question and they assure me they advised patience and time in cycling the tank so there is a breakdown in communication somewhere.

Thankfully, dumb luck has prevailed and the fish are still alive and ammonia is now zero.