Bacteria: What are your thoughts on adding "bacteria" to your reef tank?

[brandon429]

Here’s one way we know the bottle bac industry (and associated cycle procedure rule makers) have control over the information market:

someone find and post any published article or book entry on cycling that accounts for skip cycle live rock transfers

(like what runs MACNA conventions for 25 years with instant starts on time, no stalls, unwritten secret system)

there aren’t any, convenient.


100% of material that trains us to cycle reefs trains us to buy/add bottle bac though about a third of all cycles in reefing (live rock moved home, not mailed, driven home easily) need absolutely nothing


the sellers use this secret info


what do buyers use?

macna, and any other convention: has never missed a start date or a single stalled cycle for decades. They cart over cured rocks, clean sand, new water, a tank and fifty thousand in corals nobody would trust to a weak cycle, or one that only lasts five days. It’s skip cycled, fully, is the secret.

forums: if you move live rock one inch, it dies off, our tests prove it. (.25) we need to buy bottled bac to replace the obviously dead bacteria. There is no such thing as skip cycling, nothing good happens fast in reefing (except cash outflow)

the truth is about a third of reef cyclers are getting ripped off due to a chunk of missing truth in training logs. Reef cycles do not stall, but if we think they do, a purchase happens:

 

[brandon429]

100% of the reefs on that search return, were not stalled. Not a single one.

anyone can find a post via searching that shows a false read of ammonia off api or red sea in a years - old tank. The hobby knows better nowadays than to accept every .25 reading as true (but not five years ago lol)

but if we post the readings on a cycle thread, they’re all of a sudden totally accurate and forums posters reinforce the contextual accuracy as they agree about stalls. Google then shows us what to buy above.

we cannot accurately review bottled bacteria in the hobby without reviewing falsehoods that drive its sales in certain core segments of the market

 

[Treefer32]

So, what I don't understand is why don't companies bottle and sell self replicating bacteria that can be sustained in home aquariums and are good, healthy bacteria? I tried Vibrant last year for Briopsis and gha and omg... It was a nightmare. It did not deal with any algae, but instead, I lost several corals due to massive carpets of cyano that popped up over night everything was covered in it. I followed the instructions and even dosed half of the recommended dosage to be safe. But, wow, this stuff caused me a huge headache and cost me some good corals.

The flipside of this I begrudgingly tried MicroBacter7 in my 2 year old mixed reef. I'm following the maintenance dosing of 1 ml per ten gallons and dosing on the low side for my 350 gallon display. I'm only dosing once a week and so far, going slow and steady, each time I dose my diatoms are gone and continue to recede. So far, I'm liking Microbacter7. I don't know if I'll continue dosing it. Or if it's necessary to continue dosing, but, I have seen no ill effects so far... I'm skeptical of magic fairy dust....

 

[Paul B]

So, what I don't understand is why don't companies bottle and sell self replicating bacteria that can be sustained in home aquariums and are good, healthy bacteria?

For the same reason they don't sell bottled copperband butterflies or Supermodels. They can't live in a bottle. They all need oxygen and food (well Supermodels don't hardly need food and Genie's could live in a Bottle but they won't help your tank)

I never believed in bottled bacteria and always felt it was silly.
Go out in your yard and scoop up some dirt. Throw it in some water, remove most of the dirt and squirt it in your tank.

Yes really. Everything we do in this hobby doesn't have to come in a nice bottle with a healthy, smiling picture of a French Angelfish on it.

(Sorry people who sell bacteria in a bottle)

 

[Houston Reefer]

I use Brightwell Aquatics MicroBacter7 to help keep phosphate in check at each water change (every 2 weeks). It doesn't seem to have much effect so I will discontinue use going forward. I also used this and Bio-Spira to jump start my new tank two years ago. Definitely help get things going.

 

[Peace River]

Yep, I add micro bacteria to my tank - both bottled and from natural sources - but I try to limit the addition of bacteria from other people's tanks.

 

[Fernthereefer]

For the same reason they don't sell bottled copperband butterflies or Supermodels. They can't live in a bottle. They all need oxygen and food (well Supermodels don't hardly need food and Genie's could live in a Bottle but they won't help your tank)

I never believed in bottled bacteria and always felt it was silly.
Go out in your yard and scoop up some dirt. Throw it in some water, remove most of the dirt and squirt it in your tank.

Yes really. Everything we do in this hobby doesn't have to come in a nice bottle with a healthy, smiling picture of a French Angelfish on it.

(Sorry people who sell bacteria in a bottle)

I would have to disagree. Sorry Paul, outmost respect for your experience, but here I believe this interesting topic should be expanded outside our personal experience.
Live rock carries a biodiversity that enables you to avoid bottled bacteria. I agree. However:

1) Dry rock starts are more popular
2) The microorganisms required for the entire cycle process are easily outcompeted in our early aquarium environments, thus they require to be added generaly in over- abundance early on
3) The biodiversity that forms with time in a small aquarium can diverge based on many chemical and physical parameters, thus it is suggested* that remains to be proven though, to add nitrifying bacteria from time to time.
4) We are still waiting for a product that competes with the biodiversity found in live rock.

Thanks.

 

[Treefer32]

I would have to disagree. Sorry Paul, outmost respect for your experience, but here I believe this interesting topic should be expanded outside our personal experience.
Live rock carries a biodiversity that enables you to avoid bottled bacteria. I agree. However:

1) Dry rock starts are more popular
2) The microorganisms required for the entire cycle process are easily outcompeted in our early aquarium environments, thus they require to be added generaly in over- abundance early on
3) The biodiversity that forms with time in a small aquarium can diverge based on many chemical and physical parameters, thus it is suggested* that remains to be proven though, to add nitrifying bacteria from time to time.
4) We are still waiting for a product that competes with the biodiversity found in live rock.

Thanks.

I agree with this, although anecdotal, perfect example of competing varieties of bacteria. I have a large 16-18" shelf rock about 2 inches thick. I have all my acros and other SPS on it. Diatoms have been taking root on it like a plague. No other rocks or sand bed had diatoms, maybe some cyano here or there, but nothing out of check. I 've been dosing maintenance dose of MicroBacter7 weekly now for 3 weeks. Each week the patches of diatoms have gotten smaller, areas of Cyano are limited to only low flow areas now. And this week, the third week, the diatoms are completely gone from the shelf rock.

Could I have done that by digging up some frozen dirt and running water through it? I don't know. I'm guessing the water would have some pretty heavy metals in it that would kill my corals and/or fish. Heh. Is there other ways to get what's in some of these. Sure. I remember when DSBs were a thing... Now, people don't even like sand, let alone a DSB to harbor different bacteria.

 

[Paul B]

I would have to disagree. Sorry Paul

Oh Man. I hate it when people disagree.

OK, everyone here that uses bottled bacteria and their tank is 50 years old, raise your hand....Higher

 

[austibella]

There has been a lot of discussion regarding adding certain types of bacteria to your reef tank and today I thought we might talk about it some more!

1. Do you add any type of bacteria to your reef tank and if so what and why?

2. What changes have you noticed in your reef tank from these additions?


image via @Abood

I switch up Vibrant or microlift With every water change you can see how good it cleans by the protein skimmer. I also have a 120R reef octopus bio churn

There has been a lot of discussion regarding adding certain types of bacteria to your reef tank and today I thought we might talk about it some more!

1. Do you add any type of bacteria to your reef tank and if so what and why?

2. What changes have you noticed in your reef tank from these additions?


image via @Abood

 

[Rie]

I voted no because I believe that you can never keep more bacteria alive than nutrition is available.

I will only add extra bacteria in fighting Cyano bacteria. The bacteria I add are pond bacteria from the Bactoplus brand, the number one bacteria in Europe.

 

[Techno10]

I have been using Vibrant for 6 months, I don’t see it getting rid of algae completely. I believe keeping the sand bed stirred up works better.

 

[GeoSquid]

I would have to disagree. Sorry Paul, outmost respect for your experience, but here I believe this interesting topic should be expanded outside our personal experience.
Live rock carries a biodiversity that enables you to avoid bottled bacteria. I agree. However:

1) Dry rock starts are more popular
2) The microorganisms required for the entire cycle process are easily outcompeted in our early aquarium environments, thus they require to be added generaly in over- abundance early on
3) The biodiversity that forms with time in a small aquarium can diverge based on many chemical and physical parameters, thus it is suggested* that remains to be proven though, to add nitrifying bacteria from time to time.
4) We are still waiting for a product that competes with the biodiversity found in live rock.

Thanks.

For the same reason they don't sell bottled copperband butterflies or Supermodels. They can't live in a bottle. They all need oxygen and food (well Supermodels don't hardly need food and Genie's could live in a Bottle but they won't help your tank)

I never believed in bottled bacteria and always felt it was silly.
Go out in your yard and scoop up some dirt. Throw it in some water, remove most of the dirt and squirt it in your tank.

Yes really. Everything we do in this hobby doesn't have to come in a nice bottle with a healthy, smiling picture of a French Angelfish on it.

(Sorry people who sell bacteria in a bottle)

I believe what Paul B is saying is correct. A main form of nitrifying bacteria in marine sediment is Nitrosomonas sp, which is also found in land soil. I started my current reef tank with all dry rock and sand. It's 2 years going now and it has taken quite a bit longer to start maturing than when I've started with "Real liverock"...meaning it actually had a lot of life on it. The stuff I see at the LF store is just wet dry rock. I can do that and did. Luckily, I live near the ocean here in southern california and started the tank with real sea water and I collect some macro algae and amphipods....but I think algae in a bottle is just a gimmick.

 

[brandon429]

must clarify----> algae in a bottle can allow for this:

Bio-spira works great

I just started a new tank a little over a week ago. I started with all dry rock and new sand. I added a bottle of Bio-Spira and put fish and coral the same day. Never saw any ammonia and fish and coral seem healthy.

www.reef2reef.com

you can not do this without actual living nitrifiers ready to go, that's an entire reef with fish and anemone and all dry materials in one day. Plus a years follow up

its legit for quick cycling, but potentially wasteful as probiotics supp or work reducers-> currently a popular use we can see in the market. when insulting bottle bac, which I enjoy, we have to aim it correctly as its useful in certain settings... such as the let's go right now option.

 

[Aquaman508]

In battling dinos, I dosed atm colony, phyto and copepods (1 sachet a day) which worked a treat and back to clean sand.

Whats ATM colony? Im not familiar with it.

 

[Fernthereefer]

Oh Man. I hate it when people disagree.

OK, everyone here that uses bottled bacteria and their tank is 50 years old, raise your hand....Higher

Isn't your tank the SOURCE of bottle bacteria by now? LoL. Would love to analyse this!

 

[alexandre4100]

There has been a lot of discussion regarding adding certain types of bacteria to your reef tank and today I thought we might talk about it some more!

1. Do you add any type of bacteria to your reef tank and if so what and why?

2. What changes have you noticed in your reef tank from these additions?


image via @Abood

 

[alexandre4100]

I dose Microbe Lift just after water changes - every other week.
I don't really know if it is good or not, but I am in an "automatic mode" for this...

 

[Ruben Sacramento]

Ruben,

What bacteria do you use for dosing?

Microbe-lift special blend

 

[LegendaryCG]

Oh Man. I hate it when people disagree.

OK, everyone here that uses bottled bacteria and their tank is 50 years old, raise your hand....Higher

i think it makes a difference on your starting point. Live Rock, sand, real sea water provide a significant boost to a new system. If you start from man made rock that hasn’t been in a marine environment I do believe bottled bacteria help accelerate the development.