Bad Cyano with very low nitrates and phosphates???

TAP93 · May 12, 2022

So I’ve had my tank up and running for about 3 months now and I’m still fighting cyno all over but mostly on the sand bed. I bought the tank used so the sand bed and some of the live rock was already established but I later added some used dry rock to the tank. It’s a jbj 45 and I am running a tunze 9004 skimmer in one chamber and a in-tank media basket in the other with filter floss, marine pure bio brick and then some carbon. I am running a single MP-10 for flow and a Kessil A360 blue is my light source. My only bio load is two clown fish, a CUC and then three small coral frags.
My understanding was that cyano feeds off nitrates and phosphates but whenever I test, they always come back reading zero so I’m not sure what to do really?? I’v been doing 5 gallon weekly water changes and siphoning what parts of the sand bed I can reach but it seems that the cyano is back with a vengeance within a day or two. I did try a three day blackout without the tank lights off and that defenitly got rid of it temporarily but it eventually came back within a few days. I’m all for riding out the uglies but I feel like its starting to get out of hand. Is it time to try chemical-clean or what?

blaxsun · May 12, 2022

UV is something else. But yeah, I'd probably try something like Chemiclean at this point.

Dan_P · May 12, 2022

TAP93 said:
So I’ve had my tank up and running for about 3 months now and I’m still fighting cyno all over but mostly on the sand bed. I bought the tank used so the sand bed and some of the live rock was already established but I later added some used dry rock to the tank. It’s a jbj 45 and I am running a tunze 9004 skimmer in one chamber and a in-tank media basket in the other with filter floss, marine pure bio brick and then some carbon. I am running a single MP-10 for flow and a Kessil A360 blue is my light source. My only bio load is two clown fish, a CUC and then three small coral frags.
My understanding was that cyano feeds off nitrates and phosphates but whenever I test, they always come back reading zero so I’m not sure what to do really?? I’v been doing 5 gallon weekly water changes and siphoning what parts of the sand bed I can reach but it seems that the cyano is back with a vengeance within a day or two. I did try a three day blackout without the tank lights off and that defenitly got rid of it temporarily but it eventually came back within a few days. I’m all for riding out the uglies but I feel like its starting to get out of hand. Is it time to try chemical-clean or what?

Oh my! I have no cures just encouraging words. You will likely solve this problem.

TAP93 · May 12, 2022

blaxsun said:
UV is something else. But yeah, I'd probably try something like Chemiclean at this point.

Yeah, I haven’t really thought about that just yet. I’m going to do another three days of no lights followed by another water change and see what happens again. I’ll post a update picture after the three days. Could siphoning the sand be make it worse though ?

blaxsun · May 13, 2022

TAP93 said:
Yeah, I haven’t really thought about that just yet. I’m going to do another three days of no lights followed by another water change and see what happens again. I’ll post a update picture after the three days. Could siphoning the sand be make it worse though ?

I don't siphon my sand because I'm not really interested in disturbing anything.

Lavey29 · May 13, 2022

blaxsun said:
I don't siphon my sand because I'm not really interested in disturbing anything.

Interesting, do you turkey blast it?

Lavey29 · May 13, 2022

TAP93 said:
So I’ve had my tank up and running for about 3 months now and I’m still fighting cyno all over but mostly on the sand bed. I bought the tank used so the sand bed and some of the live rock was already established but I later added some used dry rock to the tank. It’s a jbj 45 and I am running a tunze 9004 skimmer in one chamber and a in-tank media basket in the other with filter floss, marine pure bio brick and then some carbon. I am running a single MP-10 for flow and a Kessil A360 blue is my light source. My only bio load is two clown fish, a CUC and then three small coral frags.
My understanding was that cyano feeds off nitrates and phosphates but whenever I test, they always come back reading zero so I’m not sure what to do really?? I’v been doing 5 gallon weekly water changes and siphoning what parts of the sand bed I can reach but it seems that the cyano is back with a vengeance within a day or two. I did try a three day blackout without the tank lights off and that defenitly got rid of it temporarily but it eventually came back within a few days. I’m all for riding out the uglies but I feel like its starting to get out of hand. Is it time to try chemical-clean or what?

You tried a conch to stir up the sand? You need more flow down there too.

blaxsun · May 13, 2022

Lavey29 said:
Interesting, do you turkey blast it?

Nope, nadda. I have oolite - so it's not like a lot of crab can really sift it's way into the sand bed that easily. And I have about 30 nassarius snails pullinng triple duty on the substrate.

blaxsun · May 13, 2022

Lavey29 said:
You tried a conch to stir up the sand? You need more flow down there too.

I've got 8 conches and 5 black sea cucumbers doing that as well.

Lavey29 · May 13, 2022

blaxsun said:
I've got 8 conches and 5 black sea cucumbers doing that as well.

I'd like to have a conch for my sand but I'm going wall to wall corals so no room for him to roam.

Susan Edwards · May 13, 2022

I just did chemiclean as it was super bad. And I had no po4 and no3 of 15. Worth doing to get my sand bed pristine again

blaxsun · May 13, 2022

Susan Edwards said:
I just did chemiclean as it was super bad. And I had no po4 and no3 of 15. Worth doing to get my sand bed pristine again

Was it cyano? (can't remember what you were battling)

reefsaver · May 13, 2022

I remember seeing a BRSTV episode where Ryan said that he has never solved a Cyano issue by lowering nutrients, and he said that CyanoRX is totally fine to use in your Reef as long as you follow the instructions properly.

Chortanator · May 13, 2022

Having this issue too from when my nitrates were really high. Now they're in the single digits but it's still able to keep coming back. I don't like using chemical treatments so I've been using a turkey baster to get it off my rock and siphoning the sand with every water change. I also slightly disturb the sand between water changes with my finger just to keep it from being stagnant.

I've notice my emerald crabs picking at the cyano, but I don't think it's enough to make much of a difference.

gbroadbridge · May 13, 2022

Chortanator said:
Having this issue too from when my nitrates were really high. Now they're in the single digits but it's still able to keep coming back. I don't like using chemical treatments so I've been using a turkey baster to get it off my rock and siphoning the sand with every water change. I also slightly disturb the sand between water changes with my finger just to keep it from being stagnant.

I've notice my emerald crabs picking at the cyano, but I don't think it's enough to make much of a difference

Have you tried MB7? Some bacterial diversity may help.

sixty_reefer · May 13, 2022

Cyanobacteria is one of the most common issues we have today and probably one of the less known of the route cause to bloom.

cyanobacteria needs mainly the nutrient C and a little N and P to thrive. This means that the Cyanobacteria could be competing directly with beneficial autotrophic bacteria for space and nutrient in your system.
one anecdotal and possible way to get Cyanobacteria back in check would be to increase N and P to strengthen the heterotrophic bacteria as they are now limited in growth by the availability of N and P for growth.

trietnguyen000 · May 13, 2022

I recently had cyano problems in my aquatop 24gal after dosing Neonitrate too aggressively. The low flow was not helping with that. What I did that really helped: 1. Added two MP10s (had just the hygger mini before), 2. Siphon it out daily for three day straight, 3. lowered my nitrate to single digit via skimmer (your nitrate looks low so no worries on this).
I think You should increase your flow. The red cyano I had was ridiculously fast growing and having that good flow really prevented it from accumulating. I run my MP10s at 75% reef crest.
I also bought chemiclean but have not use it because I just don’t like chemical. Going to have to return it back to the store.

thatmanMIKEson · May 13, 2022

blaxsun said:
UV is something else. But yeah, I'd probably try something like Chemiclean at this point.

Thats not that bad, and still not in the wheel house for Chemiclean, don't wipe out your bacteria for that little bit of cyano...

p1u5h13r4m24 · May 13, 2022

sixty_reefer said:
Cyanobacteria is one of the most common issues we have today and probably one of the less known of the route cause to bloom.

cyanobacteria needs mainly the nutrient C and a little N and P to thrive. This means that the Cyanobacteria could be competing directly with beneficial autotrophic bacteria for space and nutrient in your system.
one anecdotal and possible way to get Cyanobacteria back in check would be to increase N and P to strengthen the heterotrophic bacteria as they are now limited in growth by the availability of N and P for growth.

This is actually exactly what I am doing to battle mine. I also dosed mb7 and dr Tim’s. Each time was only a half dose. I am already seeing results on the algae, but I won’t be dosing anymore bacteria as my sps are starting to rtn. I don’t think it’s directly related to the bacteria, however I did notice the next day after each time I used Sps would rtn.

Mr. Mojo Rising · May 13, 2022

API test kit will almost always read 0, its not precise enough to give a more accurate reading. Look at the phosphate test for example, it goes from 0 to .25, but we all try to keep our phosphate somewhere around .05, which is not a possible reading on the API kit. If you really want to track phosphate and nitrate, then you will need better test kits.

I only see one powerhead in your tank? For me, increase flow really help fight it off.

Personally, I would use a turkey baster daily to suck it out for a few days, and each night add a few drops of microbacter7 and phyto to the tank.

To me, you tank just doesnt look that bad, it can get a lot worse. Its a normal problem for a 3 month old tank.