Ball Valve or Gate Valve??

[adonegan15]

I am setting up my sump and am wondering if I should use ball valves for overflow and return or gate valves. Or do I use a combination of both. Ball for overflow and gate for return? Also schedule 40 or 80 PVC? Any advice or pics of your plumbing would be helpful.

 

[jaws789832]

Just the opposite. Gate for overflow and ball for return. Gates are usually more expensive but give you more control over the flow. You really don't want to gate down the return. its better to choose a pump the right size for the flow you are trying to obtain, that way you aren't putting stress on the pump. The over flow though you will gate down to match the return so you need more control over it.

 

[ZJedi945]

I think it really depends on what kind of overflow you are going to setup. Personally I have a gate valve on my overflow so I can fine tune the flow to get a complete syphon. The return I am not using any valve at the moment since I have a vectra and control the flow that way. That might change in the future and I might add a check valve.

 

[mr11]

Gate valves are better for controlling water flow and fine tuning. The advice I was told is that ball valves are better for on/off applications. What kind of overflow are you running? I'd use a gate on the overflow.

 

[R_C]

Gate valves are better for controlling water flow and fine tuning. The advice I was told is that ball valves are better for on/off applications.

^+1

 

[jaws789832]

yeah the only reason you would want a valve at all in most cases on the return is to be able to close off the return for pump maintenance, or to possibly clean the lines in conjunction with unions, which I highly recommend a lot of on both the return and overflow as well

 

[treedog5]

No question, gate valve on your overflow always...

 

[becks]

I used a ball valve on my return line, it's slightly harder to tune the level in but the gate valves were 5x the cost here, so it was a no brainier for me...if you do use a gate valve for a herbie overflow I would use a larger gap between the syphon and emergency drain to make it easier to tune the valve in. Because my valve is connected with a threaded connection I could always change it for a gate valve if I ever needed too.

 

[jsker]

Had a ball valve and switch to a gate valve on my return for more control.

 

[Anthony kolodziej]

gate for overflow much easier to dial in a herbie or bean drain . schedule 40 PVC if more than fine . they make lighter guage PVC like sched 20 and 10 but are harder to get even for a plumber like me .

 

[Ocelaris]

I would be in trouble without my gate valve on my return, would be impossible to keep a good siphon, so glad I got a gate valve, makes it silent. I have a check valve on the return as it sits below the water line in the tank and would siphon a lot of water down otherwise. I also have a ball valve and manifold on the return to drive a gfo/carbon filter.

 

[TaylorPilot]

Think it's pretty much covered. Only thing I would like to say is to comment on the observation that turning down a ball valve on a return pump makes it work harder. It is actually the opposite. If you take a pump and put some sort of restriction on the output line (never input or it could cavitate), the amount of power draw and heat produced will go down. It will also decreases flow obviously. If you get it all rigged up and your weir or sump is making too much noise, you can always valve down the return to silence it down.

 

[jaws789832]

Only thing I would like to say is to comment on the observation that turning down a ball valve on a return pump makes it work harder. It is actually the opposite. If you take a pump and put some sort of restriction on the output line (never input or it could cavitate), the amount of power draw and heat produced will go down.

Are you sure about this? I know at my work (I work with much larger pumps) If you gate down the output, the pump heats up and unless you throttle down the power it uses the same amount. But if you throttle down the power (or have a DC pump) you wouldn't need to gate it down in the first place. Aquarium pumps might work different though I don't know.

 

[rcmike]

Yep, exactly what TaylorPilot said. The amp draw will go down if a pump output is restricted. I wouldn't think the heat would go up significantly unless you have a water cooled pump and there isn't enough water flowing through it.

 

[TaylorPilot]

Yes, I am sure. The issue with larger pumps is that sometimes they are water cooled. If you get the water flow too low, they can overheat. But with standard AC pumps, if you gate down the output, the RPM will increase slightly and the amperage load will go down.

 

[jaws789832]

hmmmm interesting. So if you deadhead a aquarium pump it wont heat up or draw much power?

 

[jaws789832]

Never knew that. Thanks for informing me. I always thought a pump was a pump reguardless of size or how it was powered. I know the pumps at work and always just carried that over to my tank and to my pool and hot tub

 

[rcmike]

We're not talking about closing it off completely. Just turning down the output some.

 

[TaylorPilot]

I wouldn't shut it off more than about 50%, especially for most of these submersible pumps where the impeller magnet are cooled by water. It will likely lead to added heat and calcification on the magnet. That is why some of the higher end pumps (red dragons) back flush the magnet to keep them from getting calcium build up. But look at this chart from dolphin pump. It's highest power draw is at 0' of head. From there it slowly drops, along with its flow.

http://www.marinedepot.com/Dolphin_...Dolphin_Aquarium_Pet-DP45002-FIWPEPOH-vi.html

 

[jaws789832]

Yeah I know but I was just trying to figure how it would work. as a pump spins it creates friction in the water and pipe. if you restrict the output it creates more friction which generates heat. If you don't slow the rpms, and you kept that going long enough the heat could build up enough to where the water can reach the boiling point which causes cavitation as well (once again I am talking a large pump so I know it probably would not get to that extreme in a aquarium pump), but it stands to reason that the water would still heat up a little thus decreasing the life of the pump. but like I said I might be totally off base with an aquarium pump. When I first started I was told that you should match the size of your return pump to the gph you were trying to achieve and not over size it and gate down (or get a DC pump that you can control the speed which is what I did) because it decreases the lifespan of the pump, and I just assumed it was for these reasons.