balling method with 2 part DIY

[GSnake]

Evening,

I am using randy's 2 part DIY recipe along with Aquaforest Reef mineral salt (Nacl free salt) to maintain ionic balance.
aquaforest states to mix it with either calcium or magnesium but not both. wouldn't it make sense to mix it with both solutions instead? I think I'm using relatively larger amount of Soda ash solution (8.4 dkh), in comparison to how much I dose for Ca and Mg.
in trying to maintain ionic balance, im also ruining the ionic balance with excess mineral salt (proportion/consumption wise)?...

also AquaF's alk, cal, mg solutions are weaker than randy's 2 part. by approx 2.1x, 2.2x, and 41.4x respectively --

I have currently diluted my calcium to match Aquaforest potency and mixed it with 1 scoop of mineral salt as recommended.

What is the best way to implement reef mineral salt with the 2 part DIY recipe?

 

[Betex]

Curious about this as well as I currently use TMP version but would be nice not to have this running on a separate doser

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I am surprised they recommend mixing it into the calcium part. I don’t think that will work, precipitating calcium sulfate.

I would dose it separately.

The magnesium part of my diy needs to change if dosing Balling Part C or AF mineral salt. Much less is needed and the optimal recipe to make it is different.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Curious about this as well as I currently use TMP version but would be nice not to have this running on a separate doser

If you could simply mix the 3 parts of my DIY or Balling recipes into 2 parts, they would already be made that way.

Making a true two part (like ESV B-ionic) requires different chemicals.

 

[Betex]

I am surprised they recommend mixing it into the calcium part. I don’t think that will work, precipitating calcium sulfate.

I would dose it separately.

The magnesium part of my diy needs to change if dosing Balling Part C or AF mineral salt. Much less is needed and the optimal recipe to make it is different.

Its what I thought but was curious in any case if it was possible as well as the OP. Thanks as always @Randy Holmes-Farley

 

[GSnake]

I am surprised they recommend mixing it into the calcium part. I don’t think that will work, precipitating calcium sulfate.

I would dose it separately.

The magnesium part of my diy needs to change if dosing Balling Part C or AF mineral salt. Much less is needed and the optimal recipe to make it is different.

I guess this is the precipitate? Or it didn't dissolve completely when I had mixed it.

I don't have an extra dosing pump for dosing it alone, unless I can mix it with kalkwasser water safely...either way I wouldn't have a clue how much to dose though.

If I were to mix it with magnesium, I can adjust the potency to match, but what is the optimal recipe? Currently have a stock of recipe 1. 3a ( the more balanced MG) made.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

You cannot mix it into kalkwasser, and to a large extent it is the same thing as my magnesium supplement so you would not usually dose both without rejiggering the amounts.

 

[GSnake]

currently i had weakened the calciium to match aquaforests potency, but if i were to double it up, (which would match the original recipe) what effect would that have on the precipitation? is there diminishing effect? whereas i can make it 4x or more as strong to offset the losses precipitated.
whats the limiting reagent here, the sulfate coming from the AF mineral salt and binding with the calcium from the dowflake right (im bad at chemistry lol )

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

IMO, if you are getting a precipitate you are messing up the primary reason to use it at all which is proper ion balance.

 

[GSnake]

ya i agree, its not a perfect solution - maybe AF mineral salt works with AF calcium though, I dont know.

 

[Reefinmike]

Although not aquaforest, people in this thread may be interested in my little project to simplify mixing and matching RHF, BRS, and Tropic Marin’s methods. I created a standard solution based off of 3.5 moles Calcium per gallon with matching solutions- “1X” strength. I referenced TM’s A:C ratio to get an appropriate part C weight. I list three different alk additives for different pH affect- Lye, soda ash and baking soda. I also experimented with higher concentrations for the sake of reducing doser noise and maximizing reservoir “size” where applicable.

My dosing setup toggles between 0.5x lye and 0.5x Ash based on pH then chases every dose with a matching dose of 5xCaCl2 and 5xTMC

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/standardizing-abc-dosing-to-mesh-rhf-tm-and-brs’s-recipes-with-concentrations.884071/#post-9768016

 

[GSnake]

IMO, if you are getting a precipitate you are messing up the primary reason to use it at all which is proper ion balance.

I did a mixing comparison exp. yesterday.
The bottle pic is of calcium chloride and rodi alone (recipe) with a small residue left on bottom.
2nd pic ( bowl in front ) with whiter bottom in bowl is the result of calc CHL and mineral salt mixed at same time. I think the heat from cal when mixed in with mineral salt makes the precipitate into a powdery, soft, semi paste like slurry. Seems like more precipitate, but it could just be different form / powdery
3rd pic is calc rodi cooled down, then mineral salt added after. The precipitate is harder, crystallized and formed a thin plate on bottom, ( water seems clearer too ).

I guess I can dose the powdery solution , although my line got clogged initially at the bottom of container trying yesterday.

Is there a better choice between the two for mixing method and preferred dosing solution?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Preferred is to not precipitate the calcium sulfate at all and dose the mineral salt separately, but it will redissolve in the tank. You need to ensure the undissolved solids do not land on or get pulled into delicate organisms.

 

[GSnake]

Preferred is to not precipitate the calcium sulfate at all and dose the mineral salt separately, but it will redissolve in the tank. You need to ensure the undissolved solids do not land on or get pulled into delicate organisms.

Will readjusting the strength of magnesium and mixing it with mineral salt produce a precipitate like the calcium solution?
For trace replenishment aquaforest says to mix mineral salt with mag, wonder if it works any.better this way.
However isn't there still an imbalance in the end due to nacl from calcium dosing and alk. AF says to not mix mineral salt with both cal and mg, so isn't this just half the problem solved?

On the other hand, I found tropic marin all for reef powder at the LFS, and an considering this instead of the above. Using AFR mainly, and dosing alk/cal/mg for adjustments - if the need arises. Might leave me with a spare dosing head or two this way too.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Will readjusting the strength of magnesium and mixing it with mineral salt produce a precipitate like the calcium solution?
For trace replenishment aquaforest says to mix mineral salt with mag, wonder if it works any.better this way.
However isn't there still an imbalance in the end due to nacl from calcium dosing and alk. AF says to not mix mineral salt with both cal and mg, so isn't this just half the problem solved?

On the other hand, I found tropic marin all for reef powder at the LFS, and an considering this instead of the above. Using AFR mainly, and dosing alk/cal/mg for adjustments - if the need arises. Might leave me with a spare dosing head or two this way too.

adding extra magnesium chloride or sulfate into Balling Part C or AF mineral salt should be OK if you are convinced you need it.

It would not require the whole amount of my Part 3 because all three of these products are largely magnesium and sulfate.

 

[Clownfishy]

Its what I thought but was curious in any case if it was possible as well as the OP. Thanks as always @Randy Holmes-Farley

Are you sure they say mix it with Calcium, I have not seen that? The video they have on their product page says mix it in a separate container but that you can add the magnesium part in the mineral salt. It does say it should be dosed at the same level as your calcium and alkalinity dosing levels. This is how I am using it and so far, I am not seeing any issues but then I am also not seeing any great improvements either!

 

[GSnake]

Are you sure they say mix it with Calcium, I have not seen that? The video they have on their product page says mix it in a separate container but that you can add the magnesium part in the mineral salt. It does say it should be dosed at the same level as your calcium and alkalinity dosing levels. This is how I am using it and so far, I am not seeing any issues but then I am also not seeing any great improvements either!

this is from the reef mineral salt page from their site
"Reef Mineral Salt can be combined in one solution with Calcium or Magnesium."
since its "or" i would imagine an imbalance is still created from the other element combining with alk

then from the components strong page from their site (the trace replenishment product)
under component K strong
"5 ml should be added to 1 litre of ready solution of magnesium chloride and mineral salt. Recommended use with Aquaforest® Magnesium and Reef Mineral Salt product"
it does not mention mixing with calcium on this page^

dosing it separately according to calcium uptake seems to be the most accurate way -
i need to get another dosing head / pump (using alk/cal/mg/kalkwasser on a 4 head pump) or switch to all for reef to do balling method right