Balling Part C

[astreck827]

I am looking for some clarification on Tropic Marin’s balling part C component…. I use K+ in my calcium and A- in my alk dosing, but I’m confused about how to use the part C… is it separate? Is it needed?
I use a 3 part dosing system + kalk: for alk I use 283g sodium hydroxide per gallon plus A- elements (240ml per day), and calcium I use CaCl 500g per gallon plus K+ elements (240ml per day). I use the prepackaged mag from BRS to dose magnesium (75 ml per day). I also dose 200 mL per hour of saturated kalkwasser. Total system volume is about 500g. Is there any value to adding the balling part C? And if so, how should it be dosed?

 

[V A R I A N T]

This explains

 

[rtparty]

Part C is there to help keep ionic balance. It is not a trace element additive.

The recipe calls for double your alkalinity but I just match my soda ash dosing amount and my ICP tests have come back pretty clean and neat so far. I also add the A and K parts into my 2 part.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Yes, Part C is needed. I currently recommend it as the third part of all of my diy two part recipes.

 

[astreck827]

Yes, Part C is needed. I currently recommend it as the third part of all of my diy two part recipes.

So if I am using a three part system and dosing:
- Sodium Hydroxide (283g/gal) - 240mL/day
- Calcium Chloride (500g/gal) - 240mL/day
- BRS Pharma Mag Mix for 2-part for magnesium - 75mL/day
Then I would mix the Balling Part C according to the manufacturers directions and dose 480mL/day?

I also dose 200 mL/hr of saturated kalkwasser, and there is 350mL of Tropic Marin Trace A- and K+ in the alkalinity and calcium respectively. Total system volume of around 500 gallons. I run a pretty high intake high output system with heavy feeding, carbon (vodka) dosing, and 2 large skimmers. I recently increased the trace elements to 350mL per batch from 260mL per batch based on an ICP test that was still showing low or undetectable in most of the trace elements.

I went back and looked at your "New DIY Two Part Recipes with Higher pH Boost" post and realized I kind of combined that with your 3 Part Recipe #1 from the RK article. I didn't remember the sodium hydroxide recipe having calcium and magnesium combined into one solution. Do you see any problems with this dosing regimen or do you have any recommendations? Sorry to re-hash what I wrote earlier but I want to make sure that I have this right.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

So if I am using a three part system and dosing:
- Sodium Hydroxide (283g/gal) - 240mL/day
- Calcium Chloride (500g/gal) - 240mL/day
- BRS Pharma Mag Mix for 2-part for magnesium - 75mL/day
Then I would mix the Balling Part C according to the manufacturers directions and dose 480mL/day?

I also dose 200 mL/hr of saturated kalkwasser, and there is 350mL of Tropic Marin Trace A- and K+ in the alkalinity and calcium respectively. Total system volume of around 500 gallons. I run a pretty high intake high output system with heavy feeding, carbon (vodka) dosing, and 2 large skimmers.

I went back and looked at your "New DIY Two Part Recipes with Higher pH Boost" post and realized I kind of combined that with your 3 Part Recipe #1 from the RK article. I didn't remember the sodium hydroxide recipe having calcium and magnesium combined into one solution. Do you see any problems with this dosing regimen or do you have any recommendations? Sorry to re-hash what I wrote earlier but I want to make sure that I have this right.

There are many different diy recipes of mine floating around.

The optimal recipe is sodium bicarbonate/carbonate/hydroxide ;take your pick based on pH) calcium chloride, and Balling Part C.

Drop the mag part of my diy. It is already in Balling Part C.

As to amounts, use the amount of Balling Part C recommended by BRS for their soda ash recipe (which is another of my diy recipes), and the need for Part C is exactly the same volume with hydroxide as with carbonate/soda ash.

 

[astreck827]

Ok, just a few clarifying questions:

As to amounts, use the amount of Balling Part C recommended by BRS for their soda ash recipe

This refers to mixing the Part C, not dosing, correct? BRS recommends 2 1/3 c per gallon for soda ash, so I would use 2 1/3 c Part C per 1 gallon of solution?

and the need for Part C is exactly the same volume with hydroxide as with carbonate/soda ash.

Are you saying here the dosing amount for Part C is the same volume per day as the alkalinity portion, or are you saying that the daily dosing volume of Part C would be the same regardless of which type of alkalinity solution that I am using? I read this as the former and not the latter, but again just making sure.

If I am understanding correctly, the recommendation would be:
- Sodium Hydroxide (283g/gal) - 240 mL/day
- Calcium Chloride (500g/gal) - 240 mL/day
- Balling Part C (2-1/3cups/gal) - 240 mL/day
- Remove magnesium mix

I really appreciate, as always, your time and expertise here.

 

[rtparty]

Part C is 162.5 grams per gallon of water

 

[Miami Reef]

Part C is 162.5 grams per gallon of water

Are you sure? I’m almost 100% positive it’s 91g/gallon.

 

[spsick]

Are you sure? I’m almost 100% positive it’s 91g/gallon.

This is correct 91g/gallon

 

[rtparty]

Are you sure? I’m almost 100% positive it’s 91g/gallon.

Is 162 the old weight? I have 162g in my notes but don’t recall where I got that

 

[Big E]

I have been using Randy's two part since around 2008 and do 10% weekly water changes.

If you do this you don't need to do part C for ionic balance nor dose Mg for levels to stay consistent.

From Reef lab-- most recent ICP

From ATI

 

[Lou Ekus]

I have been using Randy's two part since around 2008 and do 10% weekly water changes.

If you do this you don't need to do part C for ionic balance nor dose Mg for levels to stay consistent.

From Reef lab-- most recent ICP

From ATI

I have to respectfully disagree with this statement. I see that your ICP do not reflect an increase in sodium chloride. You are fortunate that this is the case. In most systems, there will be an inevitable decrease in many important trace elements if the salinity/specific gravity is kept constant, without the use of the Balling Part C. I know that you are not seeing this, and that is great! But to assume that is the case for everyone would be incorrect and misleading. If you do the math/chemistry, the numbers just don't add up. The Balling Part C is a very small addition and avoids the issue of depressed trace elements that are not being measured accurately by ICP.

Can you run a successful system without it? Absolutely! But it is a small price to pay to know that you are avoiding that issue. If the chemistry wasn’t so conclusive, being successful without using it might be a stronger argument.
Just to clarify, I’m not just saying this because I am a Tropic Marin guy. Believe me, it took me a very long time to fully understand this Balling Part C necessity. But once you see the logic of it, it is hard to deny.

Haha, I'll go crawl back into my "manufacturers whole" now. Thanks for reading this!

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I have to respectfully disagree with this statement. I see that your ICP do not reflect an increase in sodium chloride. You are fortunate that this is the case. In most systems, there will be an inevitable decrease in many important trace elements if the salinity/specific gravity is kept constant, without the use of the Balling Part C. I know that you are not seeing this, and that is great! But to assume that is the case for everyone would be incorrect and misleading. If you do the math/chemistry, the numbers just don't add up. The Balling Part C is a very small addition and avoids the issue of depressed trace elements that are not being measured accurately by ICP.

Can you run a successful system without it? Absolutely! But it is a small price to pay to know that you are avoiding that issue. If the chemistry wasn’t so conclusive, being successful without using it might be a stronger argument.
Just to clarify, I’m not just saying this because I am a Tropic Marin guy. Believe me, it took me a very long time to fully understand this Balling Part C necessity. But once you see the logic of it, it is hard to deny.

Haha, I'll go crawl back into my "manufacturers whole" now. Thanks for reading this!

Thanks, Lou.

Sodium and chloride are readily maintained by salinity control. What he did not show are those things that are bell weathers of depression by that salinity control, such as potassium, bromide, sulfate, etc.

 

[astreck827]

I’m still lacking clarity for the actual preparation and dosing of the part C. I understand getting rid of mag mix, but am I mixing up 91g, 162g or 2-1/3c per gallon? And is the dosage equal to my 2 part dose (240mL/day) or double (480mL/day)?

@Randy Holmes-Farley @Lou Ekus

 

[rtparty]

According to the BRS instructions it is 4 scoops per gallon of water. My bet is that is around 91 grams.

I think the 162grams I have in my notes is when it used to be 7 scoops per gallon of water

 

[Clownfishy]

I have been using the Aquaforest Mineral salt as my part C to Randys DIY 2 part. It has worked out fine for me so far and quite cheap. The only modification I have made recently is increasing the addition of Magnesium added to the Aquaforest mineral salt as for some reason, my reef is going through a phase of increased update of Magnesium.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Ignore part of the BRS directions that relate to the mag part when also using part C. That’s an example of corporate misinformation I mentioned in another thread today.

But here’s the Balling part:


BRS Pharma Balling Method Part C (Tropic Marin) Mixing Instructions -Using a clean 1-gallon jug or container, fill it 1/2 full of RO/DI water. Add 4 scoops of Balling Part C to 1 gallon jug. Screw on the cap to the jug and shake it for about 10 seconds to start the dissolving process. Remove the cap and fill the container the rest of the way with RO/DI water. Replace the cap and give the container a few more shakes and let it sit until the salts are fully dissolved which should only take a couple hours. Dosing is based off your aquariums alkalinity dosage, and will twice that amount when using BRS Soda Ash.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I have been using the Aquaforest Mineral salt as my part C to Randys DIY 2 part. It has worked out fine for me so far and quite cheap. The only modification I have made recently is increasing the addition of Magnesium added to the Aquaforest mineral salt as for some reason, my reef is going through a phase of increased update of Magnesium.

Coralline is a big user. Is it taking off?

 

[Clownfishy]

Coralline is a big user. Is it taking off?

Interesting you mention that. For years, I could not grow Coralline but over the last several months, I have managed to keep my historical high phosphate levels at a reasonable limit of around 0.1ppm. During this same period, Coralline is begging to show itself in several places. That sounds like why I am, and I suspect will continue need to dose more Magnesium!
Is there a limit on how much Magnesium you can add to part 3 of these solutions? I have added 3 times the recommended amount to the Mineral salt and although it has helped, i am still having to manually top up Magnesium a couple of times a week.

Thanks for pointing this out