Bangaii - what's wrong with him?
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Jay Hemdal
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Take a look at the second sticky down in this section. It outlines some other background information we need in order to try and make a good diagnosis. One important bit of information is; how long has the fish had these spots, and is it still eating?Hi, I have a Bangaii as per the pic. What is it? Ich? Velvet? Brook?
You will likely need to move the fish to a tank where it can be treated. Based on what I can see, I would begin a copper treatment right away, but other fish in the same tank will also have been exposed.
Jay
drewwCh
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Jay's absolutely right. One more thing I would like to add on is to watch the fish's behavior. Based on my experience with velvet, fish usually stay in the constant flow of a powerhead. Read up on symptoms and fish behavior that correlate to each disease and then we'll get an accurate identification.
Thanks @Jay Hemdal & @drewwCh . I posted in a bit of a panic yesterday, sorry for not reading up on the required info. And thanks for your advice so far.
Here is extra info on my situation:
Aquarium type: FOWLR
Volume: 70 gallons
Filtration: sump with skimmer + refugium + siporax and ceramic blocks. Got some filter wool in overflow for mechanical filtration.
Age: about 6 months
Parameters:
Temp: 79 F
pH: 8.4
Salinity: 1.024
Ammonia, nitrite, nitrate: negligible
Other fish: lost 2 Clowns to this in the last week and a half
Have other fish in the DT (rabbitfish, watchman goby, Mandarin, Firefish). All seem fine and are eating and active. But I am very much aware they could already be infected.
Background:
When the 2nd clown showed symptoms I started Cupramine - slowly ramping it up. Now on day 5 and at about 0.4mg/L now. So just reached therapeutic level today, I reckon.
Only noticed the symptoms on the Banggaii yesterday evening and posted my message.
This morning i did the following:
Note: I am treating my DT with the cupramine. I know its not ideal, but I did not have a QT available and was panicking. I have no corals or other inverts in there. I got advice from my LFS that since its a FOWLR and was Cupramine, not chelated copper, it should be fine to treat the DT.
I do have live rock and a refugium with pods, but what I’ve read so far says the cupramine will not leach into the rock for permanent “copper in the tank” and will not significantly kill off the bacteria. Also it seems it will not significantly kill the pods in the refugium, which is pretty much all my Mandarin eats. I have taken some chaeto out into a bucket to keep some pods alive in there just in case, though that won’t help the Mandarin until the chaeto is returned to the tank.
I have Cuprisorb ready to go once the Cupramine treatment has run its 30 day course.
Any other tips or pointers from anyone? Its been a heartbreaking few days and I would really hate to lose any more pets.
Here is extra info on my situation:
Aquarium type: FOWLR
Volume: 70 gallons
Filtration: sump with skimmer + refugium + siporax and ceramic blocks. Got some filter wool in overflow for mechanical filtration.
Age: about 6 months
Parameters:
Temp: 79 F
pH: 8.4
Salinity: 1.024
Ammonia, nitrite, nitrate: negligible
Other fish: lost 2 Clowns to this in the last week and a half
Have other fish in the DT (rabbitfish, watchman goby, Mandarin, Firefish). All seem fine and are eating and active. But I am very much aware they could already be infected.
Background:
When the 2nd clown showed symptoms I started Cupramine - slowly ramping it up. Now on day 5 and at about 0.4mg/L now. So just reached therapeutic level today, I reckon.
Only noticed the symptoms on the Banggaii yesterday evening and posted my message.
This morning i did the following:
- Fresh water dip - only lasted about 2 minutes because he did not look good at all. Laying on his side and barely breathing. I prodded him a bit to get him to swim so that the FW would go through his gills, but I was freaking out that he was about to die, to took him out and put him directly into…
- Acriflavin bath. He has been in there for about 30 minutes so far. Seems a LOT happier in there than he was in FW.
Note: I am treating my DT with the cupramine. I know its not ideal, but I did not have a QT available and was panicking. I have no corals or other inverts in there. I got advice from my LFS that since its a FOWLR and was Cupramine, not chelated copper, it should be fine to treat the DT.
I do have live rock and a refugium with pods, but what I’ve read so far says the cupramine will not leach into the rock for permanent “copper in the tank” and will not significantly kill off the bacteria. Also it seems it will not significantly kill the pods in the refugium, which is pretty much all my Mandarin eats. I have taken some chaeto out into a bucket to keep some pods alive in there just in case, though that won’t help the Mandarin until the chaeto is returned to the tank.
I have Cuprisorb ready to go once the Cupramine treatment has run its 30 day course.
Any other tips or pointers from anyone? Its been a heartbreaking few days and I would really hate to lose any more pets.
Cole.mormon
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Yes
Jay Hemdal
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The best way to identify velvet is with a microscope, the second best way is by measuring the fish's respiration rate. You can count the # of breaths in 15 seconds and multiply by 4, or take a video and count from that. Most fish this size should respire at less than 80 breaths per minute, anything over 100 is a sure sign of gill disease. That, combined with the visual symptoms, would indicate velvet.
I'm really not sure how this idea that copper needs to be ramped up so slowly got started. Five days is way too long - it gives the disease such an advantage. Back in the old days, with copper/citric acid, we would raise the copper level up over a couple of days....but that formulation is a lot more toxic than today's coppers. I just dosed an 800 gallon tank of fish this afternoon with a single full dose of Coppersafe and they are all fine.
The mandarin is going to be an issue - they don't like copper and they really don't like missing out on the food that the copper will kill off. You know the Chaeto will be able to carry some infective ich agents for possibly as long as 75 days, right?
Jay
Cole.mormon
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I would think my only option right now is to keep the Cupramine at therapeutic level for 75 days. No other options available that I can see.
At the moment the Mandarin looks happy and healthy, constantly cruising round the tank eating pods. And I can still see the pods moving around on the glass in the sump, so they have not died off.
If I was to somehow spin up a QT and put the Mandarin in there, he would carry the parasite with him, so I could never add him back to the DT with 100% confidence.
By the way, the Bangaii is breathing at pretty much exactly 100 breaths per minute.
At the moment the Mandarin looks happy and healthy, constantly cruising round the tank eating pods. And I can still see the pods moving around on the glass in the sump, so they have not died off.
If I was to somehow spin up a QT and put the Mandarin in there, he would carry the parasite with him, so I could never add him back to the DT with 100% confidence.
By the way, the Bangaii is breathing at pretty much exactly 100 breaths per minute.
Cole.mormon
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Do nt have to use copper...
vetteguy53081
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Copper is best option along with good water quality and adequate oxygen. Once this gets into gills, , , it can be downhill. The parasite is most often seen on the fins and skin, but can also infest the gills. Because Velvet is highly contagious and usually far advanced before being diagnosed, it is important to take steps to treat it as soon as possible.
Because Oodinium and velvet is dependent on light, dimming the aquarium lights helpsin eliminating the infestation.
Cole.mormon
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Abets option
But most harmful to the mandarin
But most harmful to the mandarin
Cole.mormon
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Best
