Bare bottom sand sleeping wrasse info

[Mykesocalreef]

Not sure you can "measure" it, but the result is likely succumbing to disease and early death.

My dog could "survive" in the dark in my tiny basement bathroom its entire life, but it's probably not a good idea

There are lots of wrasse you can get that don't require sand

My question isn't really about having sand or not. I want to know if a container with sand in the tank will suffice? Do they need an entire tank with sand? Not sure I follow your analogy with the dog..

 

[JaimeAdams]

I had Melanarus for years in a bare bottom tank. I'mont saying that it is natural for them, but mine has been fine this last half decade or so.

 

[joec]

My question isn't really about having sand or not. I want to know if a container with sand in the tank will suffice? Do they need an entire tank with sand? Not sure I follow your analogy with the dog..

They do not need an entire tank of sand, just a small area of proper depth

 

[R4lph]

I have a melanarus, radiant, and exquisite in my bare bottom tanks and have not had any problems.[/QUO

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I have a melanarus, radiant, and exquisite in my bare bottom tanks and have not had any problems.

i have a large melanarus and every night at 8pm he burrows under the sand. He’s like a clock.

 

[SuperDragon]

I used to have a small tupperware container of sand for my melasurus with about 2-3 inches of sand.

Over the past 5 years I was tired of it kicking sand out of the container as it went to sleep. When the sand was low I thought it might die with it's body exposed as it slept; however, it didn't die and kept sleeping exposed. I then decided to toss the container due to the extra maintenance of the container, refilling it and siphoning sand. Also, cleaning the container if detritus (defeating the bare bottom idea)

My XL melasurus wrasse has been fine for 2+ years without a container. It does not eat less, not less active, or less colorful than before. In fact it is the most active fish with the most personality in my tank. Its in a tank with other wrasses, shrimps, tangs, a mandarin, and clownfish.

 

[Micksfish]

Would just like to add my input on this. For people who are saying they are keeping sand dwelling wrasses in a bare bottom tank and they are doing fine., Doing fine and excelling are two totally different things. They are making do in your tank but that doesn't mean they are happy with the situation they are in. They are almost certainly more stressed out that they have no where to dive for their natural cover and are forced instead into rocks. Which is not their natural behavior. I think as aquarists, we should strive to keep these fish in environments as close to their real life home as possible. So yes your sand dwelling wrasses may be living, but they are almost certainly not excelling or happy with the situation.

 

[Jesterrace]

Would just like to add my input on this. For people who are saying they are keeping sand dwelling wrasses in a bare bottom tank and they are doing fine., Doing fine and excelling are two totally different things. They are making do in your tank but that doesn't mean they are happy with the situation they are in. They are almost certainly more stressed out that they have no where to dive for their natural cover and are forced instead into rocks. Which is not their natural behavior. I think as aquarists, we should strive to keep these fish in environments as close to their real life home as possible. So yes your sand dwelling wrasses may be living, but they are almost certainly not excelling or happy with the situation.

Agreed. a sand burrowing or sifting fish really needs a sand bed to be happy long term.

 

[shred5]

In almost any tank it's not hard to hide a container with several inches of sand. I would say 2" is deep enough for smaller wrasses and 3-4" for larger. Get 2 of the container and you can swap out the sand every 6 months or so. I just used whatever tupperware I had when I had a leopard wrasse (which lived for 7 years although not always in a bb tank). In my experience it takes about 1 day for them to find the sand and after that they are fine. Frankly I'm surprised some acrylic maker hasn't started making little "wrasse beds" which can really be any shape or size. I would not be surprised if you have something in your house that will do.

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/wrasse-dens-in-stock-limited-amount-available.150699/


I normally would not post any place other than Gooch alternative reef but I am not sure what is going on there right now.


https://www.amazon.com/WRASSE-Cichlid-Stone-Those-BOTTOM/dp/B01BZXQZJU

 

[DarkSky]

but you will be shorten their life expectancy

Have any evidence for that claim?

 

[reef lover]

My question isn't really about having sand or not. I want to know if a container with sand in the tank will suffice? Do they need an entire tank with sand? Not sure I follow your analogy with the dog..

To answer a container will suffice doesnt need an entire tank. I did this at first with my coris but after awhile he no longet had interest in it so i removed.

 

[PanchoG]

Have any evidence for that claim?

Yes, I have seen two die in the LFS because of the lack of sand and another one survive, they were capture at the same time but the LFS only had one sand bed. The water, the food, light, etc were the same. The only difference I saw was the small container with sand.

We should keep those fish in an habitat replicating the conditions in the oceans, that is part of responsible reef keeping.

 

[Mortie31]

Yes, I have seen two die in the LFS because of the lack of sand and another one survive, they were capture at the same time but the LFS only had one sand bed. The water, the food, light, etc were the same. The only difference I saw was the small container with sand.

We should keep those fish in an habitat replicating the conditions in the oceans, that is part of responsible reef keeping.

How do you know lack of sand killed them?

 

[Mortie31]

Would just like to add my input on this. For people who are saying they are keeping sand dwelling wrasses in a bare bottom tank and they are doing fine., Doing fine and excelling are two totally different things. They are making do in your tank but that doesn't mean they are happy with the situation they are in. They are almost certainly more stressed out that they have no where to dive for their natural cover and are forced instead into rocks. Which is not their natural behavior. I think as aquarists, we should strive to keep these fish in environments as close to their real life home as possible. So yes your sand dwelling wrasses may be living, but they are almost certainly not excelling or happy with the situation.

How do you know this? One thing for certain none of our tanks replicate a natural environment for any of the species we stock... we just kid ourselves pretending this, is it cruel I have no idea, we happily put fish that swim miles every day in out tanks, we have minimalist rockwork tanks that offer very little hiding and are completely unnatural, why not for wrasses?

 

[DarkSky]

Yes, I have seen two die in the LFS because of the lack of sand and another one survive, they were capture at the same time but the LFS only had one sand bed. The water, the food, light, etc were the same. The only difference I saw was the small container with sand.

We should keep those fish in an habitat replicating the conditions in the oceans, that is part of responsible reef keeping.

Anecdotes aren't evidence...

 

[shred5]

How do you know lack of sand killed them?

Just to play devils advocate how do you know it didn't kill them?

Being new to a shop they are stressed and the additional stress of not having a sandbed to hide in could have..

I do not know for sure but I would suspect it very well could have.

You cant claim someone else's observations are anecdotal when yours are too because they both are.

Just because A fish survives with out it does not mean he is not stressed .. Do your fish talk to you?

I have had sandbeds and had wrasses not even use it when it should have but that does not mean they are all the same..

One Wrasse or species that hide in a sandbed may be fine without it and another so stressed out it dies.

Maybe one is fine in one tank with very peaceful fish and one with more aggressive fish it wont be.

 

[Mortie31]

Just to play devils advocate how do you know it didn't kill them?

Being new to a shop they are stressed and the additional stress of not having a sandbed to hide in could have..

I do not know for sure but I would suspect it very well could have.

You cant claim someone else's observations are anecdotal when yours are too because they both are.

Just because A fish survives with out it does not mean he is not stressed .. Do your fish talk to you?

I have had sandbeds and had wrasses not even use it when it should have but that does not mean they are all the same..

One Wrasse or species that hide in a sandbed may be fine without it and another so stressed out it dies.

Maybe one is fine in one tank with very peaceful fish and one with more aggressive fish it wont be.

I’m not making any claims at all, I didn’t say one way or another what killed the wrasse, i simply asked the question. if someone makes a claim they should be able to prove it... or supply compounding evidence

 

[Mortie31]

Just to play devils advocate how do you know it didn't kill them?

Being new to a shop they are stressed and the additional stress of not having a sandbed to hide in could have..

I do not know for sure but I would suspect it very well could have.

You cant claim someone else's observations are anecdotal when yours are too because they both are.

Just because A fish survives with out it does not mean he is not stressed .. Do your fish talk to you?

I have had sandbeds and had wrasses not even use it when it should have but that does not mean they are all the same..

One Wrasse or species that hide in a sandbed may be fine without it and another so stressed out it dies.

Maybe one is fine in one tank with very peaceful fish and one with more aggressive fish it wont be.

If someone invents a product or a system or presents something as fact, it is upto them to prove its correct , not for others to prove it isn’t true...questions do not fall into this at all..

 

[PanchoG]

I’m not making any claims at all, I didn’t say one way or another what killed the wrasse, i simply asked the question. if someone makes a claim they should be able to prove it... or supply compounding evidence

You can argue and say many things but keeping fish who need sand to rest and hide in a bare bottom tank is not responsible. We got to be better, those fish were in the ocean free and with access to the sand they need, if we want to keep them in out tanks the least we can is provide them is good food, good water and a place for them to rest.

 

[Mortie31]

You can argue and say many things but keeping fish who need sand to rest and hide in a bare bottom tank is not responsible. We got to be better, those fish were in the ocean free and with access to the sand they need, if we want to keep them in out tanks the least we can is provide them is good food, good water and a place for them to rest.

I somewhat agree with you but you have such a contradiction in your statement “ those fish were in the ocean free and with access to the sand they need“ so it’s ok to take there freedom from them and free swimming but not there sand!!! To discuss ethics and responsibility in a hobby such as ours is really skating on thin ice, as much as we try to replicate “the sea” we aren’t and do we really know best, we just try to make ourselves feel better by trying to justify it in our heads... I personally think it’s best to not pass moral/ responsibility judgements on a hobby that is questionably fundamentally immoral

 

[PanchoG]

So it is ok to neglect the fish needs but better not to judge after all those messages? LOL