Basement Sump/Refugium Plumbing

[sunil6784]

I am setting up my 112g display, with two 150g stock tanks in the basement, one for a fuge, and one for a sump. The system will be fish-only (for now) with some soft corals and/or leathers.

Plumbing will be all 1", as that is the size of the pre drilled holes on the SCA tank. I plan to have a tee installed on the drain, along with ball valves, to split flow between the sump and fuge. I also plan on having a manifold off the return pump, to also pump water to the fuge for additional low flow. I would love to not have any filter socks.

Does this plumbing set up sound ok? There doesn't seem to be a clear preference on feeding a refugium from the drain vs teeing off the return, and this setup would seem to allow both.

 

[Toledo Dave]

I am setting up my 112g display, with two 150g stock tanks in the basement, one for a fuge, and one for a sump. The system will be fish-only (for now) with some soft corals and/or leathers.



Plumbing will be all 1", as that is the size of the pre drilled holes on the SCA tank. I plan to have a tee installed on the drain, along with ball valves, to split flow between the sump and fuge. I also plan on having a manifold off the return pump, to also pump water to the fuge for additional low flow. I would love to not have any filter socks.



Does this plumbing set up sound ok? There doesn't seem to be a clear preference on feeding a refugium from the drain vs teeing off the return, and this setup would seem to allow both.

 

[Toledo Dave]

Also new member. I had a basement sump for about 10 years at my old house. Worked great for noise, clutter and serviceability. You will need a powerful pump for the head pressure. Route a drain to the floor drain for super easy water changes.
I had 1.5" feed line and 2" return. Never had an issue with flow. Return should be larger. Because of back pressure the pump seals only lasted 1-2 years. Good luck!

 

[coco.puff]

I am setting up my 112g display, with two 150g stock tanks in the basement, one for a fuge, and one for a sump. The system will be fish-only (for now) with some soft corals and/or leathers.

Plumbing will be all 1", as that is the size of the pre drilled holes on the SCA tank. I plan to have a tee installed on the drain, along with ball valves, to split flow between the sump and fuge. I also plan on having a manifold off the return pump, to also pump water to the fuge for additional low flow. I would love to not have any filter socks.

Does this plumbing set up sound ok? There doesn't seem to be a clear preference on feeding a refugium from the drain vs teeing off the return, and this setup would seem to allow both.

Is this your first tank from SCA? I’m looking at one right now and can’t find much in the way of recent reviews.

 

[srobertb]

I am setting up my 112g display, with two 150g stock tanks in the basement, one for a fuge, and one for a sump. The system will be fish-only (for now) with some soft corals and/or leathers.

Plumbing will be all 1", as that is the size of the pre drilled holes on the SCA tank. I plan to have a tee installed on the drain, along with ball valves, to split flow between the sump and fuge. I also plan on having a manifold off the return pump, to also pump water to the fuge for additional low flow. I would love to not have any filter socks.

Does this plumbing set up sound ok? There doesn't seem to be a clear preference on feeding a refugium from the drain vs teeing off the return, and this setup would seem to allow both.

I just actually did something similar with a 100g and 50g Rubbermaid stock tank in my basement. I’d like to think that while I don’t always make the right decision, I’m very thoughtful about it. I went back and forth on this for a few weeks.

Connecting things together is necessary in this hobby. Systems dependent on systems dependent on systems are inevitable. However, Opportunities for compartmentalization, redundancy, and modular design should always be strongly considered and weighed against the added complexity and points of failure necessary to achieve them.

On the subject of separate return for the refugium, plumbing it off the main return, or plumbing it off the drain, I chose a separate pump.

I chose to do it this way for control and flexibility. If something goes wrong in the refugium, I can shut it down remotely and have no interruption to the display tank. I could use a flow meter to monitor the refugium flow as well. If you have your drain plumbed to it, you’ll need your gate valve before the Tee and on the face of it, it may seem like no big deal but trying to support a giant gate valve over a stock tank isn’t easy without 90’s and additional plumbing. The name of the game in aquarium plumbing is “straight runs.”

Your life depends on that drain not clogging so you’ll want a couple drains from the refugium to the sump. I was able to use a single 1.5” drain since I am only pushing around 200gph. A refugium is a nasty place with no filter sock or skimmer. You’ll probably want a couple 1.5” drains.

Secondly, and honestly the reason that goes beyond personal preference: best practices say that you would like your tank water to hit a filter sock or roller, then the skimmer, then go on to the refugium. They can get pretty nasty pretty quickly. Refugiums are low flow by design and Chaeto and densely packed live rock make for an excellent detritus catcher.

Think about adding a cheap $25 high GPM powerhead to your refugium (if not using a sand bed) to kick on for 15 minutes here and there.

Ultimately I saw more tanks with the refugium plumbed separately and fed off the main return than cascading systems (but I think I did see 1-2).

Pictured is my current setup. I have not plumbed the display in (it’s being made). I have the refugium and main tank up and running and am awaiting some gulf live rock.

 

[srobertb]

I am setting up my 112g display, with two 150g stock tanks in the basement, one for a fuge, and one for a sump. The system will be fish-only (for now) with some soft corals and/or leathers.

Plumbing will be all 1", as that is the size of the pre drilled holes on the SCA tank. I plan to have a tee installed on the drain, along with ball valves, to split flow between the sump and fuge. I also plan on having a manifold off the return pump, to also pump water to the fuge for additional low flow. I would love to not have any filter socks.

Does this plumbing set up sound ok? There doesn't seem to be a clear preference on feeding a refugium from the drain vs teeing off the return, and this setup would seem to allow both.

I’m sorry. I was only one cup of coffee in, I see you didn’t want filter socks.

Honestly- I think this is a mistake. I get it. They are nasty and become a chore. You don’t need to change them every 2-3 days though. They can still help filter out detritus from clogging your system and building up and you can change them every 7-10 days.

If you’ve chosen your route, I respect that. Consider (as I mentioned previously) adding a $25 powerhead to your refugium to kick things up every couple hours for 5-10 minutes. It’s going to get gross in there at 3-5x flow right off the main display.


I don’t know what your run is to your display but head pressure loss happens VERY quickly. Really think about that when creating a manifold off your return pump. I have 1, 90 degree bend and about 4’ of head height on a pump rated for 1500gph and I’m getting around 700gph thru it.

 

[sunil6784]

Is this your first tank from SCA? I’m looking at one right now and can’t find much in the way of recent reviews.

Yes, it's my first tank.. I haven't got it set up (still in the box) so I can't comment on the quality. Seals look good though.

 

[sunil6784]

I’m sorry. I was only one cup of coffee in, I see you didn’t want filter socks.

Honestly- I think this is a mistake. I get it. They are nasty and become a chore. You don’t need to change them every 2-3 days though. They can still help filter out detritus from clogging your system and building up and you can change them every 7-10 days.

If you’ve chosen your route, I respect that. Consider (as I mentioned previously) adding a $25 powerhead to your refugium to kick things up every couple hours for 5-10 minutes. It’s going to get gross in there at 3-5x flow right off the main display.


I don’t know what your run is to your display but head pressure loss happens VERY quickly. Really think about that when creating a manifold off your return pump. I have 1, 90 degree bend and about 4’ of head height on a pump rated for 1500gph and I’m getting around 700gph thru it.

Thanks for the thoughtful replies. My pump right now is a iwaki 100RLT. I've calculated about 15 feet of head loss, should still give me 700 to 900 gph through the sump if I recall correctly. Even if I went the manifold route, I recognize that I would have low flow through the sump, which I am ok with.

Part of the reason for not running socks 24/7 is to improve the diversity in the tank. In my past tanks, I stressed about keeping nutrients low, which I now believe hurt my success. With a softie tank also, I'm less worried about nutrients.

I do appreciate the thought about redundancies..trying to build as many as possible.

Regarding pipe sizing..even though pump inlets/outlets/bulkheads are 1 inch, is there still a benefit to upsizing to 1.5 inch drains and 2 inch return?

 

[Snoopy 67]

The Iwaki should do ust fine. Comparatively speaking it's a small tank.
Try to have everything on a bench if possible.
Your knees will thank you every time you go to do anything. It will also save you some head pressure.

 

[srobertb]

Thanks for the thoughtful replies. My pump right now is a iwaki 100RLT. I've calculated about 15 feet of head loss, should still give me 700 to 900 gph through the sump if I recall correctly. Even if I went the manifold route, I recognize that I would have low flow through the sump, which I am ok with.

Part of the reason for not running socks 24/7 is to improve the diversity in the tank. In my past tanks, I stressed about keeping nutrients low, which I now believe hurt my success. With a softie tank also, I'm less worried about nutrients.

I do appreciate the thought about redundancies..trying to build as many as possible.

Regarding pipe sizing..even though pump inlets/outlets/bulkheads are 1 inch, is there still a benefit to upsizing to 1.5 inch drains and 2 inch return?

As someone who brings “diverse” to a whole new level- Amphipods, copepods, bristle worms, crabs, shrimp, feather dusters, spaghetti worms, micro sea stars, Eunice worms, favites, tunicates, clams, and the list goes on- Filter socks, even felt ones, have never stopped life from “finding a way.”

But I still totally get not wanting the socks. Sounds like you don’t need them.

I believe on drains, if noise isn’t an issue (and it’s largely not one for us basement dwellers) that bigger is better if the added pipe cost isn’t a problem. Just be wary on the bulkheads as I just drilled my rubbermaid stock tank and you need to be careful as the flat places don’t have a lot of room for error for the 1.5” bulkhead. 100% doable and not brain-melting but tight. Obviously your drain(s) from display to basement needs to be sized appropriately based on the method and system you are using. I am more speaking of the drains from refugium to sump in your proposed cascade setup. Those drains can be as big as you want. Initially when I was pondering doing what you’re doing, I planned for 2, 1.5” drains with one drilled a bit higher as a backup. That would still be my recommendation.

As for the return: I’m personally running a 1.5” line because that’s the fitting the pump comes with, what was used to define the flow chart, and what my tank is drilled for. I wouldn’t recommend going with less than what is recommended or immediately reducing the output of your return pump.

I have done a lot of reading and I believe there is a point of diminishing returns on upsizing returns pipe diameter but advantages of going form say 3/4” to 1” but probably not 1.5” to 4”…I think sticking with the manufacturers recommendation for flow/used on their flow chart is the best way to go.

Remember to upsize your flow meter if you choose to add one.

 

[Bruttall]

I want to see how much the pump is going to cost you will need to lift that ammount of water 15 feet or more. I have an old Iwaki RLT20 with a 27ft head height on it, at 486gph and right now it costs $249.99 at brs and the new model that replaces the 30yr old one I have is only 14ft head. You will need at least 500gph flow from sump at your tank for 112g display, 600gph be better. Iwaki makes a 822gph with 21ft head. $379.99.

The mechanical's underneath the tank is what fascinates me.

 

[srobertb]

I want to see how much the pump is going to cost you will need to lift that ammount of water 15 feet or more. I have an old Iwaki RLT20 with a 27ft head height on it, at 486gph and right now it costs $249.99 at brs and the new model that replaces the 30yr old one I have is only 14ft head. You will need at least 500gph flow from sump at your tank for 112g display, 600gph be better. Iwaki makes a 822gph with 21ft head. $379.99.

The mechanical's underneath the tank is what fascinates me.

Me too about the mechanicals.

Im using 2 Jebao pumps which each push about 5500gph and each has a head height of about 30ft.

I am aiming for around 5x turnover but since I have a satellite refugium and temp disparity between the sump area and display, may aim for more.

I debated an external pump but just couldn’t get comfortable with it personally. I’m happy with my choice today but time will tell.

 

[Bruttall]

After running a few types of return, submersible and external. And having been "bit" by current reaching into my tank a few times, due to equipment leaching electricity into the thing, I reversed my stance on external. Now I would prefer to have the pump external if possible. I invested in Vortech wavemakers because they have no wires into the water, so no chance of leaking current. I am running a Vectra L1 submerged in my 300 sump, but when I convert that to salt, I am considering plumbing it external.

 

[Bruttall]

Thanks for the thoughtful replies. My pump right now is a iwaki 100RLT. I've calculated about 15 feet of head loss, should still give me 700 to 900 gph through the sump if I recall correctly. Even if I went the manifold route, I recognize that I would have low flow through the sump, which I am ok with.

Part of the reason for not running socks 24/7 is to improve the diversity in the tank. In my past tanks, I stressed about keeping nutrients low, which I now believe hurt my success. With a softie tank also, I'm less worried about nutrients.

I do appreciate the thought about redundancies..trying to build as many as possible.

Regarding pipe sizing..even though pump inlets/outlets/bulkheads are 1 inch, is there still a benefit to upsizing to 1.5 inch drains and 2 inch return?

The calculations needed to figure drain size to accommodate Pump GPH + pressure at Return inlet have faded with age for me, but if I remember right, when I did the math on my 1inch return 3100 gph pump, I needed 2.5 inches of return line to handle the flow. I made 2x 1.5 inch returns, ball valved them to run full siphon, since they are stand pipes and that helped reduce the noise level of the drains by a fair margin. Also the distance the water drops in the stand pipe under full siphon played a big part in modifying my numbers. Since your return will go thru elbows exiting the tank and stuff, I am not sure if gravity will play much of a role in your siphon strength like it does in my 34 inch tall over all stand pipes.

I think most recommend double the drain, or triple the drain, for the return. The 3 pipe overflow boxes have 3 inch drains for a 1 inch return. think those are aimed at 10x hourly turnover rates. for 5x hourly 2 pipe returns might be plenty.