Basement Sump = what Pump?

[FilterFreak]

IM looking at about 8 to 9.5 ft of head , i know some of you have your sump in the basement and i was wondering what pump your using and how many gallons your tank is and how many watts is it? I would like to keep the wattage as low as possible but it may not happen as i want it to...

my tank is going to be about 400 gallons -

thanks ~Jim

 

[reefwiser]

MD-70RLT - 1536 GPH - Iwaki

 

[mcarroll]

Count all your headloss and use a headloss calculator to predict your flow.

This includes the distance from the sump to the top of the tank where the return enters as well as all of the plumbing in between it takes to get there.

8-9' sound shy...maybe by up to 100% compared to the basement sumps I've seen.

At the very least doublecheck your 8 to 9 feet - I suspect it may be more like 11 to 16 feet.

Also unless you are creating a special case you want to keep your flow between the sump and the display to the minimum necessary to get the job done. Flow through that much plumbing is expensive. 2x to 4x your displays volume will be enough to feed skimmers, reactors and to distribute heat, etc. (e.g. A 100 gallon tank would need between 200 and 400 GPH of actual flow.)

Anyway, double check the amount of head you think you will be dealing with and repost here if it's different than the 8-9'.

 

[HiddenUser]

With my basement sump I'm running a Royal Exclusiv Rd3 Speedy 230 watt for the return pump and I'm going to be getting a second one for redundancy purposes and for the additional flow. My display is ~270G, but I have 400G of total volume.

 

[Feet4Fish]

MD-70RLT - 1536 GPH - Iwaki

Agreed!

 

[Breadman03]

With my basement sump I'm running a Royal Exclusiv Rd3 Speedy 230 watt for the return pump and I'm going to be getting a second one for redundancy purposes and for the additional flow. My display is ~270G, but I have 400G of total volume.

I have a 150 and am currently running a Blueline 70. The RD3 230 is getting plumbed in as soon as I finish my coffee. In all honesty, I would go for the RD3. Royal Exclusiv recently set up a warehouse in Florida and I believe will go from being a bit of a niche product to being all over due to simplified shipping reducing cost dramatically and North American support.

 

[HiddenUser]

Abyzz would be a good option as well if you're looking for a DC return that can handle plenty of head pressure. I believe that BRS has recently started selling them. Pricy, but there aren't many DC pump options that can handle a lot of head pressure.

 

[jduck]

I would run 2 vectors L1.

 

[FilterFreak]

I rechecked my head measurement... I found a problem with my sump height... I had it figured to be to high and hard to do maintenance on, of course i was trying to keep the head as low as possible... I went down in the basement and measured it and it would have put the top of the sump at my shoulders ... That would have gave me almost 9 ft... im going to drop it down a little more which in turn will raise my head value... Nothing is built yet, still in the planning stages, plan 20 times, build once ... I hope Ha.

5 X flow rate would put me at 1875 gph - Is that the flow rate everyone is shooting for?

 

[mcarroll]

5 X flow rate would put me at 1875 gph - Is that the flow rate everyone is shooting for?

5x is about the most I've been able to justify - 4x is really plenty. Beyond 5x just seems wasteful. Please rememeber, we're talking actual flow rate...or a close, calculated estimate. (Or a VERY conservative guess.)

Nothing is built yet, still in the planning stages, plan 20 times, build once ... I hope Ha.

Definitely spend some time on the planning!

A rough sketch might help to plan out how many 90º elbows, how many 45º's....how many vertical feet....how many horizontal feet...etc, etc. It's really too much to do just in your head....at least my head.

I generically figure one story is 11 feet. A sump as waist-height puts the pump at about 3' from the ground....giving 8 feet of head pressure to get to the 2nd story. If the destination is a return-outlet at the water level, and the water level is about eye-level, that's about 5-6 feet off the ground.

8 feet + 6 feet = 12 feet of head pressure purely from vertical lift.

In all likelihood you're going to want to (or have to) zig-zag a little with the plumbing as well as have a union and valve or two....all those will contribute to that base, vertical head pressure.

 

[FilterFreak]

This may sound Odd, or outside the box but,, im going to try to use as much tubing as i can.. That way i stay away from a bunch of fittings etc... At the bulkhead would be the shut off and another at the pump, no unions needed , no 90's or 45's to restrict flow... should be simple... I was at a Dairy barn and i seen them using food grade lines going into the chiller... Thats where i got the idea, its a Ball Valve for open close then the food grade line on the end of a tapered pipe... They use Stainless of course but we use those type ends on pumps and power heads all the time... so it would be -- bulkhead - small piece of pipe then- ball valve- then tapered end with hose on and ran to pump... you really dont have much restriction that way and dont have to worry about all the plumbing zig zags, etc.. basically set it up like a under tank sump with hose... i know there are a few other things to worry about but in general same plumbing...

 

[FilterFreak]

I would run 2 vectors L1.

1 wont do the job? i dont see the benefit of running 2 at $400 + a pop? 130 watts X2 is 260 watts, your really not saving much?

 

[fragit]

I got a 70rlt iwaki for my return. 15' of head for a 120gal DT, with a 40gal fuge, and 40 gal sump. You defiantly are going to want/need unions for maintaining your system. Your gonna have to clean your pump, add ons in the future, maybe change your plumbing etc. Your going to need to be able to get the plumbing apart at some point. We all do no matter how much planning is done.

 

[FilterFreak]

I got a 70rlt iwaki for my return. 15' of head for a 120gal DT, with a 40gal fuge, and 40 gal sump. You defiantly are going to want/need unions for maintaining your system. Your gonna have to clean your pump, add ons in the future, maybe change your plumbing etc. Your going to need to be able to get the plumbing apart at some point. We all do no matter how much planning is done.

Hows your flow rate? post some pics if you dont mind.. Thanks, ~Jim

 

[fragit]

Don't know yet, still in the planning collecting equipment phase. Spend a little time with a piece of paper and sketch what you have in your mind. I would add 5-10 more 45 elbows to what you think your gonna need. Then get on a head loss calculator, there is a good one on that other forum. It will give you a good idea of what our looking at. Remember it's just a rough estimate and just a good starting point. As long as you have a minimum of 2x tank volume turnover per hour you'll be fine, and can make up the DT circulation with powerheads. Aside from the Iwaki I was considering going with Reeflo, but they don't have as good of reviews as the Iwaki pumps do.

 

[FilterFreak]

yea im leaning towards the Iwaki as well, you may want to look at Pond Pumps as well.. Sequence and Helix are good reliable pumps but im not sure how quiet they are.. They move some water...

 

[fragit]

Already got my Iwaki. I have not researched pond pumps. As far as I'm concerned I will only use something rated/designed for salt water applications on my reef tank. Too much to go wrong, again just my opinion and I have not researched those pumps at all.

 

[FilterFreak]

I havent either, a guy at work told me about them this morning.. He has a Helix on his 1000 gal pond... He swears by it.. Im not sure how it does in SW though.. im like you and many others, Iwaki it is...

 

[AlexG]

I used a reeflo pump for my basement sump setup 120gallon display I used to have and plan to use it on my new system. The hammerhead/barracuda model has 2 impellers. I was pushing 15' of head pressure and the barracuda impeller was enough to keep a good supply to the tank and an additional refuge tank. They also make some smaller models with lower GPH ratings if that is what you are looking for.

 

[FilterFreak]

I used a reeflo pump for my basement sump setup 120gallon display I used to have and plan to use it on my new system. The hammerhead/barracuda model has 2 impellers. I was pushing 15' of head pressure and the barracuda impeller was enough to keep a good supply to the tank and an additional refuge tank. They also make some smaller models with lower GPH ratings if that is what you are looking for.

I looked into those, i would probably push the limit of the head pressure and maybe have 4 ft left.. That lowers the flow quite a bit.. The Iwaki has twice the head at 29 ft... Its going to have better flow as it has more power to push... Im pretty much settled on one of them... the wattage isnt killer and i seen tons of great reviews..

@reefwiser he is the president of a local club i joined... After chatting with him a bit, im sold on the Iwaki ... He brought up some very good points n the pump...