Basement Sump

[Ares]

We are building a new house and I'll have a 150 reef in the family room, plumbed to the basement where I'll have several frag tanks, refugium and sump all plumbed together in a "fish room". I have some questions for those of you that have done this.

1) What did you use for a return pump? Any particular brand hold up better than others?
2) If you had a "fish room" how big did you make it and do you regret anything? I don't want to take up a bunch of space but leave enough to do what I want and store what I need to in this room. Considering the tanks (refugium, frags, sump and QT), supplies, RO reservoirs, etc in this room, would be it be more ideal to go with a square room (12' x 12'?) or rectangle (15' x 10)?
3) What should I consider when it comes to electrical for this room if anything other than making sure the circuit can handle the demand from this room and be on GFCI outlets?
4) Do you run a dehumidifier in this room or use something other than standard drywall? I don't want to create mold issues.
5) Since the basement will be cool year-round, does it make any difference to insulate this room and keep a space heater or is it not worth the hassle and just run an ample number of heaters in the sump?
6) What else should I keep in mind or that you wish you did differently? I only have 1 shot at this so want to do it right and plan wisely.

I plan to have the 150 in the family room, then a big refugium, 100 gallon frag tank, and sump in the basement. The return pump will feed both the frag tank and the tank upstair unless it makes more sense to run a separate return for the frag tank. Am going to go full Triton so hopefully water changes will be few and far between but will have my RO setup in this room as well. Will have a drain in this room too to make water changes easy when needed.

thanks for the advice and tips

John

 

[Daniel@R2R Verified Admin]

I don't have experience with basement sumps, but I'll bump this for someone else who might. Maybe the #reefsquad can help.

 

[Arif]

I have a 250 g in my living room, downstairs I have a 150 g sump, 175 g frag tank, and 100 g tank all on 1 system. I use a reeflo hammered I believe pushes about 4600 gallons. The sump room is about 30 feet away. Issues I had were humidity, cooling and heating my system, ph would drop due to ventilation. Dehumidifier did the trick. Ph I'm still struggling with. Electric bill is higher but sump room was the best decision I've ever made. Water changes are much easier plus I don't damage my living room floors

 

[Special_K]

Considering a similar setup. Bookmarked!

 

[sbash]

1) I pretty much exclusively use Mag pumps, they are reliable and come with a great warranty.

2) My fish room is current about 13 x 8', which I will have expanded to 13 x 20 by Christmas. However, it also shares a space with my furnace. BUT, it has my houses sump pit in it, so I use that for drainage.

Think about your workable space, you need to move around, you need running tap water and R/O water on hand. You need a work area for water tests, fragging, etc. You also need space for storage.

Remember you can take advantage of vertical space, as well as lateral. For example, I have a waist high shelf/counter for tanks, a head high shelf for reservoirs and storage, and storage under the waist high counters...

So plan out for what you have now, and double it, lol... Who knows you might get into a giant zoa garden, or breeding fish...

3) Get as many circuits involved in your system as possible. Always put a GFCI at the 'front' of the circuit. Plan for extended power outages; for example, it is common for my house to be out of power for 24 hours (or more) at a time in the winter (silly ice storms). So I am moving my main circuit over to one that hooks into the generator's panel so I do not have to run extension cords this winter, lol.... I am also hoping to figure out how to expand from two circuits to four when I do my expansion this fall.


4) No, this is not needed where I am set up. Largely due to the furnace being in my fish room. I also have my 220G DT vented through my cold air return. So any humidity immediately pushed through the house. I do, however, have two dehumidifiers on hand, but have not needed to use them due to fish room issues...

However, if it is a concern, use the drywall for bathrooms and a permanent dehumidifier (not a portable one, it might cost more, but should be more efficient). Really, in a new house build, I would do this as a form of preventative maintenance. It only costs twice the price per sheet, which is a small price to pay to avoid water and mold issues...

5) I cannot really answer this, as I am many many miles further north than you. However, for my 220G, I use a simple temperature controller and two 300w heaters and the temperature is rock solid all year around... My room is insulated from the outside, not the inside...

6) Give yourself space to work, several circuits for electricity, hot and cold water with a proper drain, and ventilation if you need it. Keep it simple.

Also, something quick and easy I built into my system is a drain pipe from one of my return pumps and a pump from the saltwater reservoir to the sump. This took my water changes down to 5 minutes. Some details are in my build thread in my sig...

[QUOTE}
I plan to have the 150 in the family room, then a big refugium, 100 gallon frag tank, and sump in the basement. The return pump will feed both the frag tank and the tank upstairs unless it makes more sense to run a separate return for the frag tank. [/QUOTE]

If possible, I would suggest to keep a separate system for your frags. If you DT runs into problems (or vice-versa), you can still keep the frag system healthy. It is a bit more work, but less if there are problems...

Lastly, redundancy is a wonderful thing if you can afford it

 

[Ares]

Thank you for the feedback from both of you. That helps.

Sbash -
I've been debating whether to do 2 systems or just 1 for the reason you mention. 2 systems means twice the dosing pumps and twice the water analysis for triton but that's really it. I'll think about that part of it carefully now that you mention it. If 1 system crashes at least I'll have frags or colonies in the other. But if it's altogether I lose it all.

 

[Arif]

Thank you for the feedback from both of you. That helps.

Sbash -
I've been debating whether to do 2 systems or just 1 for the reason you mention. 2 systems means twice the dosing pumps and twice the water analysis for triton but that's really it. I'll think about that part of it carefully now that you mention it. If 1 system crashes at least I'll have frags or colonies in the other. But if it's altogether I lose it all.

2 systems are safer than 1 large. Things to consider are 2 systems means double the work and equipment. I appreciate the fact that a larger water volume is more forgiving to swings and changes. The reason I went with 3 tanks on 1 system was to simplify maintenance. I love this hobby and everyone around me thinks I'm crazy, but there are times I get sick of the head ache and the money I put into it. Simple helps me keep my tanks running instead of wanting to drop kick it in the face

 

[CastAway]

I don't think there's any denying that Iwaki pumps are a hobby workhorse, although even the RLT100 may not give you the head capacity you'll need.

Also, "basement" rings of CO2 to me. I'd be sure to build in some outside air intake and/or robust air exchange for the sake of your pH.

Tagging along.

 

[AlexG]

I think a basement sump is a great way to go. While my entire system is in the basement this time around the last one I kept had a basement sump.

1. Reeflo Barracuda/Hammer Head is what I use as it will handle a lot of head pressure and the pump comes with two impellers. The hammerhead impeller puts out 6000gph at 0 head pressure.
2. I would make the fish room as big as you can from the start.
3. I would use a minimum of two dedicated circuits rated at 20 amps with GFCI & AFCI protection
4. Humidity issues need to be considered along with mitigation for humidity. I would not use regular drywall. For my system I have a number of measures in place to contain, minimize, and mitigate humidity: Moisture barriers, tops on the sumps, ventilation, dehumidifier along with a couple of humidity monitors.
5. I would consider a radiant heating system rather than using electric heaters.
6. Take your time planning and don't sacrifice accessibility or ease of maintenance in your design.

I have covered many of these topics in depth on my YouTube channel https://www.youtube.com/user/algawura2
The videos are relation to my system build but much of the information and DIY projects I present can be used for any size aquarium system.

 

[sbash]

twice the water analysis for triton

What is involved with the water analysis?

 

[vlangel]

I have a basement sump and its the best thing I ever did. Even though I only have a 56 gallon tank, its for seahorses so I do 21-25 gallons a week for water changes. Having the sump in the basement ended me carrying 5 gallon buckets of water to do changes. Since a cold water line was right there I installed the ro/di on the wall near the sump and floor drain. I just drain the sump into the floor drain. I have 2 brute cans for water, 1 saves ro water, the other is for mixing salt. Both have pumps and flex tubing. The ro water can be pumped into the mixing can and when the salt is mixed, it can be pumped into the sump. The pumps do not need to be expensive, cheap rios will do the trick.

I originally used a 9.5 mag drive for the return and mine has 10 feet of head pressure. Mag drives are super durable and reliable. They are not as efficient or as cool running (seahorses need cool water)as DC pumps so I bought a Jabao DC 6000. I can adjust the flow and so far I am very happy with it. I have had it 10 months.

We run a dehumidifyer and I have had no problems with mold or mildew.

 

[Ares]

What is involved with the water analysis?

You send off a water sample and they do an in depth test of everything in it (roughly $50). Your results then tell you what you need to add, neutralize, or remove to get your water as close to natural sea water as possible. So you do that, get your results and dose accordingly then submit another analysis a month or so later to see if you've corrected the problems correctly. Then every 3-4 months send in another sample just to be sure things continue along. This is what eliminates the need for weekly water changes. You get your system to NSW and dose their product to maintain all the trace elements, alk, calc etc. Run a big refugium to take care of nitrates and so forth. I like the idea of it and have seen some tanks that run it and they're phenomenal so I'm going to give it a try.

With 2 systems if I go full Triton on both you can see where the water test cost adds up and another tank for a big fuge, another skimmer, etc...
Nothing says I couldn't maintain my frag system with weekly water changes instead though.

I had a nice system several years ago and lost everything to a tank crash while I was on vacation. Put me out of the hobby for a couple years. Would hate to go through that again so 2 systems I think is the way to go.

 

[sbash]

I had a nice system several years ago and lost everything to a tank crash while I was on vacation. Put me out of the hobby for a couple years. Would hate to go through that again so 2 systems I think is the way to go.

Yeah for sure, at $200 a year for the tests vs losing $1000(s) in coral... However, you are right, the startup costs are higher, but once again, could very well pay for itself if there are issues.

 

[rideit6578]

Hello, I can't speak to all of your questions but just having built a tank room myself I can hit a few. I'm not plumbing to the basement though, although I wish I could, just wasn't possible. If you're painting the walls in the basement I'd add M1 to whatever it is you use or use Zinsser mold resistant paint.
I put my tank room on 2 20a breakers. I also installed an exhaust fan in the room.
The heat for the room did start where I wanted the tank room to be so I blocked that off so none or little excess heat comes into the tank room.

I'd also plan some room for at least a small qt system in there somewhere.
If you have sewer vs septic....obviously make sure there's water and a drain down there or at least a way to pump into its own septic tank.

I hope any of this was useful.
Good look and look forward to seeing the build!

 

[Dodgersfan]

We are building a new house and I'll have a 150 reef in the family room, plumbed to the basement where I'll have several frag tanks, refugium and sump all plumbed together in a "fish room". I have some questions for those of you that have done this.

1) What did you use for a return pump? Any particular brand hold up better than others?
2) If you had a "fish room" how big did you make it and do you regret anything? I don't want to take up a bunch of space but leave enough to do what I want and store what I need to in this room. Considering the tanks (refugium, frags, sump and QT), supplies, RO reservoirs, etc in this room, would be it be more ideal to go with a square room (12' x 12'?) or rectangle (15' x 10)?
3) What should I consider when it comes to electrical for this room if anything other than making sure the circuit can handle the demand from this room and be on GFCI outlets?
4) Do you run a dehumidifier in this room or use something other than standard drywall? I don't want to create mold issues.
5) Since the basement will be cool year-round, does it make any difference to insulate this room and keep a space heater or is it not worth the hassle and just run an ample number of heaters in the sump?
6) What else should I keep in mind or that you wish you did differently? I only have 1 shot at this so want to do it right and plan wisely.

I plan to have the 150 in the family room, then a big refugium, 100 gallon frag tank, and sump in the basement. The return pump will feed both the frag tank and the tank upstair unless it makes more sense to run a separate return for the frag tank. Am going to go full Triton so hopefully water changes will be few and far between but will have my RO setup in this room as well. Will have a drain in this room too to make water changes easy when needed.

thanks for the advice and tips

John

I don't have a basement fish room, but am a general contractor and can answer your construction related questions:

3) it depends on how much equipment/how many tanks you have. You can look at the specs for your planned equipment and see what the peak and running amperage draw are (peak is almost always what it uses to start up, it can vary depending on the equipment). Don't just look at running amperage. I see a lot of designers make the mistake of putting for example 17-18 amps of running amperage on a 20 amp circuit. But if one of those pieces has a higher peak it can trip a breaker. Try to keep your running amperage around 50% of the breaker's capacity. So for example if you find that the total running amperage of all of your equipment is 25 amps, do at least (3) 15 amp circuits, but possibly consider a 4th if you plan to ever expand your equipment significantly down the road.

4) use MMR drywall, also called 'greenboard'. will your basement have heating & air? If so a dehumidifier is probably not necessary. Just put a supply vent in the room, you can also put a louver in the door or undercut it by about an inch to promote airflow through and out of the room. If your basement hvac doesn't run often you might consider a dehumidifier, just set it up and see. If it feels really humid to you buy one of those little $10 humidity sensors off amazon and set it up in the room, if you're consistently getting readings above 50-60% then add a dehumidifier.

Since you have a floor drain consider doing a resilient flooring. Most commercial kitchens use quarry tile, which is relitively inexpensive slip resistant and you can get cove tile base to create a 4" 'pan' on the floor. The most likely point to get water damage is where the drywall meets the floor. You can have your flooring contractor add a roll on moisture barier under the tile for not much more while they are doing the tile.

5) if your basement has heat and you put a supply vent in the room you won't need a space heater. If no heat it will depend on how cold your basement gets. I'd set up a tank with a heater as a test and see if it struggles to hold temperature or not. Also something to consider if you go with no heat in the room is that if a heater in a tank dies your water temp will likely drop significantly (depending on how fast you catch it and what time of year) the space heater or supply gives you some redundancy.

 

[fragit]

I have a basement sump to a 120 display, 40 breeder refugium, and 40 breeder sump. Total water volume around 150gal. I use an Iwaki 70rlt, and that thing is a beast. Plenty of flow for my system. It is not the quietest pump, but hey it's in my basement so who cares! I have not run into any humidity issues, but I live in Maine so winter is dry the furnace keeps the humidity down in the winter. In the summer I have a window fan in the basement window and occasionally run a mobile air conditioner.

 

[pecan2phat]

When I moved into my condo, it had a finished basement. There was a 9'x17' area that housed the washer/dryer, countertop and sink area + some pantry closets. I decided to wall off the area into a sump room. I constructed a wall with a cutout for a 120g display and a door along the 9' side. I used green board for the new wall and also tacked up some white board that was suppose to be for hobby/laundry rooms that were mold resistant along the area walls that were housing any tanks or sumps, the rest of the room was already finished with a drop ceiling. I routed two 4" vents in the front and back of the room with an inline exhaust fan and humidistat control. I eventually ducted an additional vent for a portable 12k BTU A/C unit for 2 months use during the summer months.

Having said all this I would not do this again. While I probably could have used more planning and some professional advice, I thought that I had covered most of the obstacles in an hobbiest/amateur approach. The reason I would not create this room again is because roughly into the 5th year, I started to have a lot of humidity issues even with the commercial inline exhaust running almost 24/7 and even utilizing the portable A/C's dehumidifier from time to time. I had 3 additional tanks within the room along with the sump for the upstairs tank. Along with the constant humidity issues, I noticed that anything metal started to rust in the room along with a custom metal outlet strip that the the previous owner had built into the wall that spanned 10 feet. The rusting eventually shorted the power strip and tripped the breaker box. The worse was when one exterior foundation wall (exposed concrete wall areas around the countertop wall with exposed cabinet areas) started to mold along with the insides of the countertop cabinets. I would do my best to wipe the areas down with bleach every 2~3 months but it started to spread to the other side of the room up along the basement staircase wall. Other noticeable items were that along that wall, I started to get black mold on the sheet rocked walls even 2 stories above in my bedroom behind bureaus and dresser furniture.
On the 8th year since I had the fish room running, I started to take down all my tanks due to a temporary move out of state. I still have my condo but there are no tanks running but the empty tanks are still all in place along with the fish room. What I have noticed in the past 18 months since I shut all the tanks down was that while any below ground basement will have humidity issues, nothing like when you have all that saltwater volume in a small area. My windows on the 1st and 2nd floor do not condensate ridiculously in the winter time any longer and the mold has stopped going up along that one wall all the way up to the 2nd story. I still need to clear out all the tanks and equipment out of the fish room in order to mitigate the mold that is that room, something I dread doing.
If I setup my tanks again, it'll probably be limited to just the display tank on the 1st story and I'll utilize a sump underneath rather then utilizing the existing basement/fish room plumbing.
That's my story

 

[BlueCursor]

I had my house built. The builder drilled holes for me and I plumbed with flex tube before sheet rock went in. When I moved in I finished up with PVC to my utility room, which I had a utility sink added when the house was built. I also had a 20 amp GFI circuit specially added for my setup in the utility room.

1) For a pump, I use n Iawaki MD-100RLT. It can handle the 16 foot lift from my basement floor, where the sump is, to the top of my aquarium on the first floor. I have 10' ceilings in my basement plus they built with trusses which added extra height. The pump was too much in the beginning and over performed for my 100 g overflow. So I put in a T to slow it down. After I diverted some of the return water to a chiller (250 g/hr), GAC and GFO, and a refugium, the pump is just right. I'm getting 520 g/hr to my DT still.
2) For your fish room setup, you just need to look at space and plan things out. Think 3D, don't just spread out in 2D fashion. You want to be close to a sink/drain so you run less hoses to the water supply/drain. But running hoses isn't a killer. My setup actually runs along 2 walls in an L shape. So square is not needed. I have stand to hold 55 gal garbage can for mixing salt, a 20 gal garbage can for mixed saltwater that is used for daily 1% water changes, a sump, pump, refugium, two sets of shelves (you cannot have enough shelving and you will need more than you plan), and 5 gal buckets containing salt, CaCl, NaCO3, GAC.
3) Definitely GFI! No exception. I have tripped my 5 times due to splashing water (why the electrician put it by the sink I have no idea), shorting out stuff when there was leaks, and bad equipment. I have a 20 amp but Apex says I have never gone over 8 amps. Keep in mind that your lights, power heads will be on a different circuit by your tank.
4) I don't run one very rarely. I have a heat recovery system that exhausts air from my house, recovers the heat from exhausted air, and brings in fresh air. So humidity isn't really an issue with me because of the air turnover.
5) When I built my house I put in zone heating. My basement is on a spate zone and I don't heat it nearly as much as the rest of the house. My basement, here in Minnesota, gets down to 60 F at night in the winter. I had to upgrade my heater from 300 W to 500 W because it wasn't keeping up at night. I can't imagine that heating my basement would cost less than heating my tank some extra. I know what my heat costs and 1/3 of that is a lot less than electricity I spend on heating the tank.
6) Things I did right:

• I have a GFI outlet. This is non-negotiable when you put things in water! Just do it no mater the cost. 15 Amp will be fine.
• I put in a sink so I have that for cleaning, mixing, etc.
• I researched pump head height flow for hours, days, possibly years. I ignored every thing the LFS tried to sell me and ordered the pump I needed for my height and flow requirements based on published head height flow curves. If you don't see a number for your height, move onto another pump. My decision was good, but I am maxed out. If I wanted to go from 5 DT turn overs per hour to 10 I cannot.
• I set up Apex to easily be able to turn off the pump when feeding. I got real tired of running up and down those steps every feeding during the first month.
• I have an RODI dispenser on the corner of my sink. I bought an extra dispenser at Home Depot and added a T and tubing to my RO lines. But I also added a 5 gal separate RO tank for this dispenser with a flow switch. This is key! You don't have to wait for RO to be made from your sink dispenser. Especially when you are trying to fill a 1 gal jug for making more dosing fluids. And you need the flow switch so that your sink RO doesn't drain when you turn on the switch to fill your SW mixing station with RO water.
• Consider where the water is going to go when there is an accident! And there will be an accident! I have had 3 floods in 4 years. The problem with a basement fish room is you know you don't have to worry about the carpet. So you aren't as careful. At least, this is true of me. Fortunately, I have a floor drain in my utility room and it has saved me from flooding the rest of the basement, which is finished off.
• Some things you just buy 2 of. One for the fish room and one for under the DT. I have 2 stainless steel scissors, 2 bone cutters. When I had one it was always a flight of steps away.

Things I did wrong:

• Not putting in flood sensors right away. I waited until after the second flood to do that.
• I didn't install flow meters until after Apex released them. I had a lot of tweaking to do once I discovered my real flow. Now I have for my DT flow, chiller flow, and refugium flow.
• I have my sump/pump under a table to save space. I hand built this table. I would make the table about 6-8" lower. I wanted lots of room under the table to easily work on the sump, but I went overboard. Doing my water testing at the table is a little difficult because the table is 48" high. But I am only 5 7". If I was 6' it would be perfect I think. I wouldn't have to bend over any, but it wouldn't be too high.
• I didn't insulate the PCV return tube between the tank and fish room. Fortunately, I was able to do this later. Wrap scrap carpet padding from 2 feet before to 2 feet after every elbow in the return PVC pipe. Water gurgles at those locations and I heard it in my family room and kitchen. It was annoying. Carpet padding took care of this. Had I finished the basement before I did this, I would have never been able to quiet the noise.

One more thing to consider is MTS (multiple tank syndrome). I am suffering from the temptation right now. The only thing preventing me from doing it is my fish room cannot support it without a major rebuild. Consider this when putting yours together.