Basic apex questions

[CindyKz]

Santa (aka my awesome husband ) offered to buy me a controller for Christmas and I've settled on Apex to control 2 tanks. I have a couple basic questions about the compatability of the equipment I already have:

1. I use Neotherm heaters. Can Apex override the internal controls or do I need to buy heaters without thermostats?

2. One tank has a Jebao pp-4 powerhead. I know (or at least I think I know) that I won't be able to program it with the Apex....or can I? Can I at least turn it on and off, set up a feed mode, stuff like that?

I really don't want to drop a grand on a controller and extra modules and probes, then find out i have to replace a bunch of incompatible equipment too.

Thanks in advance!

Cindy

 

[Brew12]

Santa never brings me reefing toys...

I use Neotherm heaters. Can Apex override the internal controls or do I need to buy heaters without thermostats?

You can use these heaters without a problem. What I do with a similar heater is to set the heater thermostat to control the temperature I want to maintain. I have the Apex turn off power to the outlet if temperature gets too hot. This protects me from a stuck on heater. You could also set the heater to a hotter temperature than you want to maintain so the internal thermostat is always on. Then you could let the apex outlet turn the heater on and off. Either way works fine.

One tank has a Jebao pp-4 powerhead. I know (or at least I think I know) that I won't be able to program it with the Apex....or can I? Can I at least turn it on and off, set up a feed mode, stuff like that?

I don't believe that you can control the PP-4 directly from an Apex. You can plug it into an outlet on the power bar and use the Apex to turn it on and off. For feed mode you could set the outlet to turn off which isn't quite as nice as having it slow down but it is an option.

 

[don_chuwish]

^ Brew12 perfect answer

 

[azbigjohn]

I do the exact same thing as Brew mentioned for my heaters. I believe there are some folks who have made control cables to link directly to Jaebo products, but I just used the on/off functionality when I ran then. To be honest, now that I run Gyres, I do the same thing. I control the gyre with the built in controller, but use the Apex for shut off, re-start for feeding.

 

[jml1149]

Santa (aka my awesome husband ) offered to buy me a controller for Christmas and I've settled on Apex to control 2 tanks. I have a couple basic questions about the compatability of the equipment I already have:

1. I use Neotherm heaters. Can Apex override the internal controls or do I need to buy heaters without thermostats?

2. One tank has a Jebao pp-4 powerhead. I know (or at least I think I know) that I won't be able to program it with the Apex....or can I? Can I at least turn it on and off, set up a feed mode, stuff like that?

I really don't want to drop a grand on a controller and extra modules and probes, then find out i have to replace a bunch of incompatible equipment too.

Thanks in advance!

Cindy

You can use this guy to control the PP-4's via Apex:

https://www.amazon.com/Neptune-Syst...d=1511201547&sr=8-1&keywords=jebao+apex+cable

I don't remember if it comes with the required interface cable, but it hooks right up to the brain. No additional modules required. I did this with my 30g tank. The reliability of the Jebao powerheads is terrible, but they're cheap enough to keep a couple spares around.

You might also consider replacing the Neotherms, so many problems and a track record of poor reliability. It floors me that they're still available to purchase.

 

[rkpetersen]

You can use these heaters without a problem. What I do with a similar heater is to set the heater thermostat to control the temperature I want to maintain. I have the Apex turn off power to the outlet if temperature gets too hot. This protects me from a stuck on heater. You could also set the heater to a hotter temperature than you want to maintain so the internal thermostat is always on. Then you could let the apex outlet turn the heater on and off. Either way works fine.

Yes, both will work, and each approach provides a backup safety in case the primary heating control fails in the on position. Neptune recommends the second approach: set the heaters to slightly higher than your desired set point, and let the Apex do the fine control. The rationale here is that the relays in the EB832 will supposedly last for something like 100 to 1000 x as many on/off cycles as the contact points on most heaters' internal thermostats.

I've tried both methods with my Apex and a pair of NeoTherm heaters. Despite the NeoTherms' reputation for really tight temp control, when using two of them in tandem, I found that the Apex could control the water temp set point much more tightly and smoothly than letting the heaters do so on their own. Possibly due to calibration differences between the two heaters?

Another advantage to using the Apex for primary control is the ability to set seasonal variations in your system's water temperature. I've got mine set up so that the water temp is 1.4 degrees F cooler in the winter than in the summer. Not only does this mimic nature to a degree, it also allows for less energy spent heating the tank in winter and cooling it in summer.

The third reason that I prefer using the Apex as controller is access. My heaters are in a part of the sump that's hard to reach, but otherwise perfect for them. With the Apex in control, I can set the heater internal thermostats to just slightly higher than the normal temp operating range (in my case, 79 degrees) and generally never have to touch them again.

 

[rkpetersen]

You might also consider replacing the Neotherms, so many problems and a track record of poor reliability. It floors me that they're still available to purchase.

At one point, I was running two 200W NeoTherms in tandem, which have since been switched out for EJs. Almost all the NeoTherm cracked cases have been with the 200W model, with a report or two of it happening with the 150W model. To my knowledge, there are no reports of this catastrophe happening with the smaller wattage models.

 

[jml1149]

At one point, I was running two 200W NeoTherms in tandem, which have since been switched out for EJs. Almost all the NeoTherm cracked cases have been with the 200W model, with a report or two of it happening with the 150W model. To my knowledge, there are no reports of this catastrophe happening with the smaller wattage models.

Sure. I was using a 200W heater as well, and swapped it out for the Finnex one when I heard about the issues. I used the neotherm to heat water change water after that, and sure enough, after a period of time the case cracked. Maybe it dried out because when I wasn't doing water changes, it was dry, and the wet / dry cycles wore it down. But it still cracked and I had to toss it.

 

[Brew12]

You can use this guy to control the PP-4's via Apex:

https://www.amazon.com/Neptune-Syst...d=1511201547&sr=8-1&keywords=jebao+apex+cable

I've never seen that before, I need to remember that one for the future!

 

[CindyKz]

Santa never brings me reefing toys...


You can use these heaters without a problem. What I do with a similar heater is to set the heater thermostat to control the temperature I want to maintain. I have the Apex turn off power to the outlet if temperature gets too hot. This protects me from a stuck on heater. You could also set the heater to a hotter temperature than you want to maintain so the internal thermostat is always on. Then you could let the apex outlet turn the heater on and off. Either way works fine.


I don't believe that you can control the PP-4 directly from an Apex. You can plug it into an outlet on the power bar and use the Apex to turn it on and off. For feed mode you could set the outlet to turn off which isn't quite as nice as having it slow down but it is an option.

Exactly the information I was looking for. That you for the thorough reply!

 

[CindyKz]

You can use this guy to control the PP-4's via Apex:

https://www.amazon.com/Neptune-Syst...d=1511201547&sr=8-1&keywords=jebao+apex+cable

I don't remember if it comes with the required interface cable, but it hooks right up to the brain. No additional modules required. I did this with my 30g tank. The reliability of the Jebao powerheads is terrible, but they're cheap enough to keep a couple spares around.

You might also consider replacing the Neotherms, so many problems and a track record of poor reliability. It floors me that they're still available to purchase.

I'll look for this thanks!

The Jebao isn't great, but this is my "budget" build (sarcasm intended). I figure if Santa's going to blow a ton of money on a controller, I may as well protect both tanks with it.

 

[jml1149]

The Jebao isn't great, but this is my "budget" build (sarcasm intended). I figure if Santa's going to blow a ton of money on a controller, I may as well protect both tanks with it.

Yeah, I agree. They're good enough for what they are, one of the last things I upgraded. I would spend the money on the Apex before I upgraded to the MP40's I use now, to be honest.